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Scott, I some what agree with you regarding the Shorai battery. However, it has worked just fine for my application in the FJR 1300. Did a 5,000 mile trip last Summer and never had any problem with the battery and the bike was retrofitted with tons of electronics. So your comment that the Shorai is not applicable to a big sport touring bike doesn't hold water. Maybe their latest batteries are better then the model you tested. Concerning the parasitic current draw on the newer Porsches being exceptionally low after 10-15 minutes of being turned off doesn't seem right to me either. I have never measured the current being drawn when the car is in the 'sleep mode' but the Porsche owners manual as well as the dealership mechanics all recommend using battery tenders to keep the battery charges if not being driven often especially during the Winter mos. In fact they strongly recommend using a battery tender device as a normal practice if not driven daily. So I would guess that the systems that are active during shutdown (security, etc) have considerable current draw, enough to draw down a typical 70 - 80 ah battery.
Anyway, just my thoughts and good luck with the Li battery technology . Hope to see that used in our cars more in the future and a reasonable cost point!
Concerning the parasitic current draw on the newer Porsches being exceptionally low after 10-15 minutes of being turned off doesn't seem right to me either. I have never measured the current being drawn when the car is in the 'sleep mode' but the Porsche owners manual as well as the dealership mechanics all recommend using battery tenders to keep the battery charges if not being driven often especially during the Winter mos. In fact they strongly recommend using a battery tender device as a normal practice if not driven daily. So I would guess that the systems that are active during shutdown (security, etc) have considerable current draw, enough to draw down a typical 70 - 80 ah battery.
Hey Viper
I see you don't feel I'm accurate on the Parasitic draw of a modern Porsche.... I'm actually stating facts that are actual data as tested on and additionally relayed to me last Thursday by the Porsche Tech at Rusnak Porsche Westlake. He stated after 2005 Porsche started working on a Battery management system for the Cars so they would not deplete that battery so fast... he said over the last 5 years the draw has gotten exceptionally small due to the computer monitoring the electronics of the car and the draw. That is absolutely confirmed by our testing on our 2016 GT3 RS, it is also confirmed by a draw down test by a Cayman owner in Texas who is actually right now doing testing on a ATX30 battery of ours that is a smaller 18Ah Battery compared to the 30Ah battery in our RS30. So after almost a MONTH it is still sitting at 13.2v... its normal resting voltage. That's pretty darn impressive that it is still in it upper level of state of charge after month. Also, I'm not throwing out statement to you guys that I "think" are reasonable. I'm stating facts that are tested by our company, and others or told to me by the Techs if I state that is the case..... I will not claim anything unless tested or I will tell you it just my opinion.
I also want to express something about why your manual and Porsche Techs will tell you to put it on a Maintainer.... Lead/Acid batteries have an effect called Self-Discharge... they have a much higher self dis-charge rate than Lithium batteries. So that alone is enough for the Car manufacturer to tell you to keep the battery on the charger. Lithium has so little Self-Discharge that is can hold a charge for upto and over a year without discharging itself... So if you have a lithium battery dis-connected form the vehicle so the parasitic draw would not be effecting it you could come back a year later and start the car. This would not work with a Lead/Acid battery. But regardless which type of battery if you know you are not going to be starting it for a few months you should monitor that battery.
Good input from all... it allows me to relay some cool stuff about batteries... and batteries can be pretty boring.
Hello everyone, I am that guy in Texas with the ATX-30 20Ah battery. It only weighs 6 lbs, but is a little beast. It has been in the car almost a month without a hitch. I have been to 5 track days already, two local and one with a trip down to Austin to run at COTA. The lightness (42 Lbs) is definitely noticeable in my Cayman S, especially at the track.
Since returning home, I have let the car sit for 16 days so far and the voltage has only dropped from 13.30 to 13.17 as of this pm. Less than we had expected. When using a clamp on amp meter I can only see it fluctuate between .02 and .05 amps when it is asleep. It appears Porsche has gotten the parasitic drain issues cleared up, at least as of 2014.
I know Scott mentioned a month, but to be factual and transparent, that is the total length of time since he had sent me the battery. Had to have some fun with it first, and now we are doing an actual in car draw down test. Bench tests are nice, but this is an actual car, sitting in my garage, getting its voltage measured almost everyday. I plan to keep this going for about 30 days and will report back to this forum on the results each week. I will sub in an RS-30 here shortly so I can drive the car as needed, and put the ATX-30 back in so I can keep this real world parasitic draw test going for all to follow. Hopefully this will give us all more confidence in using these lithium products.
I am one of those guys who wants his car as light as possible. If you live up north, it appears most people don't drive their Porsches much in the winter, and have a battery maintainer for their cars anyways. They could also use the lithium battery for the summer season and put the AGM battery back in for the winter. During the cold months you can turn off your RS-30 and keep it indoors.
Viper, that is one cool avatar. How does the F-16 compare when flying on a light fuel load as compared to when she is full up.
I have not gone in yet to get the PIWIS update for the battery. Too busy lately. Curious as is Scott to see how it works without doing that. Again no problems so far as the BMS protects the battery.
A few years ago in the weight-loss world of Lotus, a vendor introduced a lithium battery for the Elise/Exige world. It cost around $1K and saved 20 lbs. Users were happy as Lotus folks are prone to be with anything that saves more weight until the batteries crapped out after a year or so. One buyer engineer took one apart and discovered a design flaw (I don't remember what) that was not fixable. The formerly happy Lotus folks wanted a refund but the vendor was a bit hard to reach. We all went back to small Odysseys...
I'm not suggesting this vendor is going to sell anything but their best effort, but I'm a little cautious about this technology without a big name behind it, to be honest.
I do recall that a lithium battery was a $1700 option for the Cayman R in 2012. I don't know what Porsche charges for the replacement for that if I showed up at the dealer.
In regards to your comment "I'm not suggesting this vendor is going to sell anything but their best effort, but I'm a little cautious about this technology without a big name behind it, to be honest."
Hey Andy, I understand where your coming from.. we are not a "big name" like Odyssey Batteries or Interstate Batteries.... but we are actually pretty big in our niche of Lithium Batteries. We are not just trying a "best-effort" as a Vendor looking for sales... we are Antigravity Batteries and we are leading the way in this category. We have kicked the technology and viability of Lithium Batteries for Street/Performance Sports Cars very far down the road with our RS-30 Battery. We have a product for all to consider if they desire lightweight, hi-power and the latest in Lithium technology.
We are not new to this game by any means... We started in 2010 and also made the first mini jump starter and created a whole new product category with our MICRO-START product, which was the "Best Rated Jump Starter" in Consumer Reports in 2014... we have sold just short of a million of those MICRO-STARTS since 2013... So though many have not heard of us we are extremely solid in our field of expertise, and have a large following.
The latest Porsche Lithium battery is about $4500 dollars and doesn't even offer the protections and features our RS-30 does... and if you over discharger it they won't warranty it.... $4500 down the drain.... do not pass go. Our RS-30 you can't even over-discharge, it has built in protections against that. That alone is worth the price of admission when you compare it to the price of the Braille or Porsche Lithium options.... So we are beating the bigger names by a large margin in cost, performance, quality and technology. Now it just about getting the word out and that is why I am here and new to the Porsche site. This is the year we focus on directly pursuing Automotive and showing we are the lithium company that does it right.
lovetoturn, Glad to hear about the battery load testing your doing and even more delighted to hear Porsche is addressing the parasitic current drain issue as well. Definitely hope that is behind us on the newer cars and hoping the Li batteries continue to develop and will be supported by Porsche as well.
As to the Viper performance difference between full tanks and near empty, there is some difference but with a P/W of near 1:1 it's not too noticeable by seat of the pants . However, with full external tanks there is quite a difference. Always plan to drop those off before entering bingo areas!
Awesome info in here, thanks. What kind of temps would start to cause issues for these batteries btw? I work overnight, and the car is parked for 12 hours. Will I experience any issues if it's 20°F? 10°F? The car is normally parked in a garage at home, so really it would only be 12 hours max at extreme low temps.
Awesome info in here, thanks. What kind of temps would start to cause issues for these batteries btw? I work overnight, and the car is parked for 12 hours. Will I experience any issues if it's 20°F? 10°F? The car is normally parked in a garage at home, so really it would only be 12 hours max at extreme low temps.
Well I can't give you absolute data unfortunately because it would depend on the Motor size, if you have any mods, or a lower weight oil for the winter. But I can tell you around 20 degrees would get the battery more sluggi in general. But that does not mean it wouldn't start, it would just turn over a little slower on the initial start attempt. But the standard Porsche Motor is not a hard turn over at all for our battery... so flipping it over in lower temps with this size battery shouldn't be hard at all.. Also ut when current is expressed by the battery it self warms... so subsequent starts would be back to normal. What car is it? What motor, and what area are you in?
And last if you ever chose to go this route reach out to me... we'll allow you to test it and offer a full refund if it doesn't work like you need it too. We'd be glad to allow some cold weather Rennlister to test the battery.. .just give us the data and keep track of it accurately and we would be very happy to assist. The fact is I have not shipped out an RS to be tested in super constantly cold environment. I've had them in cars going snow boarding and that was in the 20s in a Toyota Tacom 4.0 Liter V6 and didn't phase it.. but that' s just a couple days every month or two. I solid 2 months in really cold temps would be cool to test it in..... We actually had our ATX30 in a Miata in Michigan and that did completely fine and that was a daily drive work car......but the Miata was is a super easy turn over and small motor. I would like to go V8 Truck, and also the Porsche because the Sports Car is our Market.
Cold weather? Don't have any.
Light weight? Don't care. AFAIK I've never used what performance I have.
Re-start facility? Haven't needed it in the last 40 years.
But--this guy sounds like he has a good product, wants your business, and is prepared to go the extra mile.
Well I can't give you absolute data unfortunately because it would depend on the Motor size, if you have any mods, or a lower weight oil for the winter. But I can tell you around 20 degrees would get the battery more sluggi in general. But that does not mean it wouldn't start, it would just turn over a little slower on the initial start attempt. But the standard Porsche Motor is not a hard turn over at all for our battery... so flipping it over in lower temps with this size battery shouldn't be hard at all.. Also ut when current is expressed by the battery it self warms... so subsequent starts would be back to normal. What car is it? What motor, and what area are you in?
And last if you ever chose to go this route reach out to me... we'll allow you to test it and offer a full refund if it doesn't work like you need it too. We'd be glad to allow some cold weather Rennlister to test the battery.. .just give us the data and keep track of it accurately and we would be very happy to assist. The fact is I have not shipped out an RS to be tested in super constantly cold environment. I've had them in cars going snow boarding and that was in the 20s in a Toyota Tacom 4.0 Liter V6 and didn't phase it.. but that' s just a couple days every month or two. I solid 2 months in really cold temps would be cool to test it in..... We actually had our ATX30 in a Miata in Michigan and that did completely fine and that was a daily drive work car......but the Miata was is a super easy turn over and small motor. I would like to go V8 Truck, and also the Porsche because the Sports Car is our Market.
I'm in central NC, where usual winter temps are 30°ish at night, but occasionally dips to 10-20. I have the 2.7L 981 btw. I'll definitely keep you guys in mind for when my oem battery croaks.
Here's a video we finished on the RS-30. and below that I show some CAD RENDERS of the Tray we are making. Hoping for some Trays in within 10-14 days but a little frustrated with the time this is taking to get material and the CNC work done.
Let me know if you are taking pre-orders and what your anticipated “package price” is. While this moves me slightly off of the “100% OEM” status that I’ve been shooting for, my car already had the wheel spacers and the clear side markers when I bought it, and I haven’t seen fit to swap those out yet either.
Let me know if you are taking pre-orders and what your anticipated “package price” is. While this moves me slightly off of the “100% OEM” status that I’ve been shooting for, my car already had the wheel spacers and the clear side markers when I bought it, and I haven’t seen fit to swap those out yet either.
+1 for my 981 Spyder. Interested in a full replacement solution. Thanks!
It has now been exactly 21 days and the ATX-30 Battery has only dropped from 13.30 volts to 13.14 volts. That is well under .01 volts per day and it should be good down to 12.5 volts to start the car. I will keep a real live Porsche car draw on the battery for another 7 days and give everyone an update in another week. At that point it will have been a month and who doesn't either drive their car or put a tender on it after that length of time. Whatever this battery does then there should be an even greater level in confidence in the RS-30 as it has 50% more capacity.
I've had some experience with LiFePO4 batteries. I installed one in my sport bike and it was flawless. I installed one in my 987.2 and had a few problems, but I caused them. I was working on the car and left the car unlocked in my garage. It over-discharged and fried the battery. I bought a new one. This one was only 8lbs! I also bought a separate discharge prevention switch. I still have to install that. I used the special Li charger to set it up initially, because you have to, but otherwise they're not necessary. I use a retail Schumacher battery maintainer to keep it maintained. I made my own battery tray, and used velcro to fasten the battery. that's all you need. Cover one side in velcro, stick it to same sized patch on the tray. I saved 42lbs. My total cost was $700. Sounds like Antigravity have some great tech advances (the older cars don't need the software updated for the battery) and good price. Does your tray kit install into the existing battery tray? That thing is a tank and your tray should eliminate it if done correctly. If I did this again your product is a no-brainer. Anyone who puts a giant lead-acid in their car is wasting an easy way to save weight, lower Cg and save hassles. They'll outlast a normal battery so the added cost isn't that much more.
03-20-2018, 08:12 PM
