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2013 Boxster S 6MT: what is it worth?

Old 03-02-2018, 04:54 PM
  #31  
fast1
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So, at least to me, a few over-revs are not an issue. Especially if there is a warranty coverage for a few years like you have for your car. If past over-revs actually damaged the engine, the symptoms should appear relatively soon: within the warranty period
When you state " a few over-revs" I assume you mean a few instances of over-revs, since each instance is likely to cause over 100 ignitions in an over-rev range, even if you are just bouncing off the rev limiter. Of course it will be many more for a missed downshift. I agree that catastrophic engine damage will likely occur quickly with over-revs in range 5 or 6, but it could occur much later, especially when the engine is stressed again with even range 1 or 2 over-revs.
In terms of warranty coverage, it's unlikely that the manufacturer will honor a warranty when there are over-revs in range 4 or higher. This is just anecdotal but I'm aware of one case were Porsche initially denied coverage for engine damage and there were just range 1 and 2 over-revs, but there were numerous instances of these over-revs. Eventually Porsche compromised and covered the material costs, but not the cost of labor.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:18 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
...I agree that catastrophic engine damage will likely occur quickly with over-revs in range 5 or 6, but it could occur much later, especially when the engine is stressed again with even range 1 or 2 over-revs.
Can you give us examples of this. I'm a bit fuzzy here.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:50 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
When you state " a few over-revs" I assume you mean a few instances of over-revs, since each instance is likely to cause over 100 ignitions in an over-rev range, even if you are just bouncing off the rev limiter. Of course it will be many more for a missed downshift. I agree that catastrophic engine damage will likely occur quickly with over-revs in range 5 or 6, but it could occur much later, especially when the engine is stressed again with even range 1 or 2 over-revs.
Yes, I meant "a few instances of over-revs". Thank you.

When a 6-cylinder Porsche engine makes 9000 ignitions per minute at mere 3000 rpm (3 pulses per revolution), how significant is 100 ignitions? If an engine made 300 ignitions in, let's say, range 4 (I believe it's >7900/<8400, correct me if I'm wrong), it made 100 revolutions. At 8200 rpm for example, the engine only spent 0.73 second at that speed. If something like this actually caused catastrophic engine damage, Porsche would have gone out of business years ago. Again, YMMV.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SpyderSenseOC View Post
Can you give us examples of this. I'm a bit fuzzy here.
Just one and it happened two years ago.. A friend of mine had a Corvette and missed a downshift. He exceeded redline by almost 2K RPM. We expected the worse but the engine ran fine and after a couple of months he thought that he dodged a bullet. So about seven months after the incident, he took his car to a dragstrip and the engine died at the track while he was making his run. Unfortunately for him, GM denied his warranty claim because of the over-revs.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:19 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
Just one and it happened two years ago.. A friend of mine had a Corvette and missed a downshift. He exceeded redline by almost 2K RPM. We expected the worse but the engine ran fine and after a couple of months he thought that he dodged a bullet. So about seven months after the incident, he took his car to a dragstrip and the engine died at the track while he was making his run. Unfortunately for him, GM denied his warranty claim because of the over-revs.
With all due respect (code for I don't want to engage in a pissing contest) that subsequent failure could have been, and probably was, caused by things other than damage initiated by those prior over-revs. I'm certainly no authority here, though, and would welcome many of you other more knowledgeable guys chiming in and explaining how damage caused by over-revs could manifest itself far down the road mileage-wise. I'm sure it's possible. But certainly not typical. That's why dealers are instructed to ignore over-revs beyond a certain mileage range when it comes to warranty coverage and CPO certification.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:30 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by storii View Post
Yes, I meant "a few instances of over-revs". Thank you.

When a 6-cylinder Porsche engine makes 9000 ignitions per minute at mere 3000 rpm (3 pulses per revolution), how significant is 100 ignitions? If an engine made 300 ignitions in, let's say, range 4 (I believe it's >7900/<8400, correct me if I'm wrong), it made 100 revolutions. At 8200 rpm for example, the engine only spent 0.73 second at that speed. If something like this actually caused catastrophic engine damage, Porsche would have gone out of business years ago. Again, YMMV.
Don't know if the wording has changed but the last over-rev report I read stated that over-revs in range 4 could cause engine damage, 5 was likely to cause engine damage, and 6 was virtually certain to cause damage. If a valve hits a piston during the over-rev, the damage will be instantaneous.
You are certainly entitled to your views, but here's an excerpt from a Porsche technical manual: When the engine rev limiter is exceeded the engine can fail or be damaged leaving it susceptible to future failure. Instant failure would normally be caused by valves hitting a piston. Subsequent or delayed failure is often caused by a compromised timing chain which can be weakened or stretched at high engine speeds. If a timing chain were to be excessively stretched failure is possible due to the abrasive effect of a slack chain against the sprocket teeth on which it runs.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:31 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by SpyderSenseOC View Post
That's why dealers are instructed to ignore over-revs beyond a certain mileage range when it comes to warranty coverage and CPO certification.
No one is talking about a few rare instances of over-revs or hitting the rev-limiter. A car that has been raced or extensively tracked will show many more over-rev excursions and thousands of ignition cycles spent in higher ranges. And you can't know if it's the former or the latter without doing an over-rev report. Porsche will not CPO a car with bad over-rev numbers.

This whole discussion started with someone's question whether skipping an over-rev report before buying a car is a mistake. I think the answer should be clear by now.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:38 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
Don't know if the wording has changed but the last over-rev report I read stated that over-revs in range 4 could cause engine damage, 5 was likely to cause engine damage, and 6 was virtually certain to cause damage. If a valve hits a piston during the over-rev, the damage will be instantaneous.
You are certainly entitled to your views, but here's an excerpt from a Porsche technical manual: When the engine rev limiter is exceeded the engine can fail or be damaged leaving it susceptible to future failure. Instant failure would normally be caused by valves hitting a piston. Subsequent or delayed failure is often caused by a compromised timing chain which can be weakened or stretched at high engine speeds. If a timing chain were to be excessively stretched failure is possible due to the abrasive effect of a slack chain against the sprocket teeth on which it runs.
Thank you for posting that. That's the type of info I was talking about. I hadn't considered the stress to the timing chain that could result in a less-than-full life for that component.
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Old 03-02-2018, 07:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by SpyderSenseOC View Post
With all due respect (code for I don't want to engage in a pissing contest) that subsequent failure could have been, and probably was, caused by things other than damage initiated by those prior over-revs. I'm certainly no authority here, though, and would welcome many of you other more knowledgeable guys chiming in and explaining how damage caused by over-revs could manifest itself far down the road mileage-wise. I'm sure it's possible. But certainly not typical. That's why dealers are instructed to ignore over-revs beyond a certain mileage range when it comes to warranty coverage and CPO certification.
What you and I or even a dealer believes is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer believes that is relevant. In the case that I cited, GM denied the warranty because of the over-revs. You reference a mileage range for disregarding over-revs. For Porsche it's an hourly standard, and it's 200 operating hours after the over-rev incident occurred
The following is Porsche's current CPO policy: Current Porsche warranty procedure ( as of 2017) considers activity in ranges 3 and 4 to be potentially problematic with compression tests and / or oil checks deemed necessary irrespective of whether or not incursions occurred several hundred operating hours prior to the check. However, in a pragmatic relaxation of previous protocol vehicles with activity in ranges 5 and 6 will be considered for extended warranty provided the over rev activity occurred more than 200 operating hours ago. The warranty provision is at the discretion of the importer and subject to the aforementioned compression/oil checks.
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:17 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
Don't know if the wording has changed but the last over-rev report I read stated that over-revs in range 4 could cause engine damage, 5 was likely to cause engine damage, and 6 was virtually certain to cause damage.
Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
The following is Porsche's current CPO policy: Current Porsche warranty procedure ( as of 2017) considers activity in ranges 3 and 4 to be potentially problematic with compression tests and / or oil checks deemed necessary irrespective of whether or not incursions occurred several hundred operating hours prior to the check. However, in a pragmatic relaxation of previous protocol vehicles with activity in ranges 5 and 6 will be considered for extended warranty provided the over rev activity occurred more than 200 operating hours ago. The warranty provision is at the discretion of the importer and subject to the aforementioned compression/oil checks.
Am I reading this correctly? Even if "range 5 is likely to cause engine damage and 6 is virtually certain to cause damage", if nothing bad happens in 200 operating hours after hitting range 5 and/or 6, the car will still be considered for CPO. Couldn't this mean that even hitting range 5 or 6 wouldn't necessarily be a certain death sentence?

All I am saying is that a few instances of over-revs for brief moments shouldn't be an instant deal killer. Cars that has been raced or extensively tracked are totally different matter. I will stay away from those at all costs.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:19 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by storii View Post
Am I reading this correctly? Even if "range 5 is likely to cause engine damage and 6 is virtually certain to cause damage", if nothing bad happens in 200 operating hours after hitting range 5 and/or 6, the car will still be considered for CPO. Couldn't this mean that even hitting range 5 or 6 wouldn't necessarily be a certain death sentence?

All I am saying is that a few instances of over-revs for brief moments shouldn't be an instant deal killer. Cars that has been raced or extensively tracked are totally different matter. I will stay away from those at all costs.
It shouldn't be a deal killer, but it would give me pause. Of course if the car has passed the compression / oil checks, it can be considered for a CPO. That's theoretical. Now for the "real world". I have owned many 911s over four decades, and I have never seen nor heard from my PCA friends about a CPO car with range 5 or 6 over-revs. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I expect that they are rare. OTOH there are techs who have worked on Porsches a lot more than me who don't think it's a big deal. I tend to be a lot more cautious.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:36 PM
  #42  
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No dealer would offer to buy this car for $37,500--that's BS. Wholesale, it's worth maybe $33,000. Top price for a private sale would be around $37,000. The Porsche dealer in Nashville has a nice '13 Boxster S for $39,500---asking price. And this is CPO!
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:48 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
What you and I or even a dealer believes is irrelevant. It's what the manufacturer believes that is relevant.
..
I don't entirely agree with those statements. Honda says that unless their cars burn more than a quart of oil per 1,000 miles, the car is operating normally. Others have disagreed and punished Honda for it. And rightfully so. Auto manufacturers take ridiculous positions against consumers every single day and if the only relevant position was that of the auto manufacturers we would all be in trouble.

Last edited by SpyderSenseOC; 03-02-2018 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:51 PM
  #44  
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2013 non-s manual boxster, ~40k miles, $34k. With Nav, Bose, and more (but no PSE, no PASM)... just as a data point
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:12 PM
  #45  
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I am currently shopping for a manual CS or BS but majority of the ones on autotrader/cars.com are asking stupid money with almost no options... so they are just sitting on the lot
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