I wanted to hate the 718 but............
#16
#17
Back on topic, I can't see anyone hating the 718's dynamic performance. The polarizing elements are the looks and the sound. Those two things are what separates those who like it and don't.
#18
Just saying mate.
Yep i get that - BUT 981/ 987 are mid engine - so different enough - guess the 911 is such an institution now - they dare not compete with it...
Agreed
Ehmm not a pissing match yet - just saying - not raining on anyone's parade - i think the video's i have seen - it looks like a lot of fun - but there is something special about the Flat 6 Boxster engine that was unique to Porsche.
The reason for the 4cyl 718 is simple. The 981S and base 911 were getting too close in performance to justify the price differential. So the 718 was relegated to a 4cyl engine, and to make matters worse the price was increased. If you check on existing 718 BS inventory, you'll find most of them with stickers in the $80K+ range. To some that's a lot of money to pay for a 4cyl.
I think we're going to have to eventually separate the 987/81 forums and the 718 forums. Every single thread on it ends up in a pissing match with neither side winning, or so it seems. I prefer the 6 cyl as well, but it is silly to base a purchase price just on the cylinder count (hell, most of us could afford at least V8's if not V10's, right, but we choose flat sixes for many other reasons?) They're different powerplants for different goals. I like the 718 more than its competition, just not as much as my 981S.
#19
Racer
Actually neither the 718 4 cylinder (which I have) nor the previous versions' 6 (which I've heard) can carry a tune next to my old 1963 215 cu. in. V8 Buick Skylark convertible. So there.
#21
Just saying mate.
Yep i get that - BUT 981/ 987 are mid engine - so different enough - guess the 911 is such an institution now - they dare not compete with it...
Agreed
Ehmm not a pissing match yet - just saying - not raining on anyone's parade - i think the video's i have seen - it looks like a lot of fun - but there is something special about the Flat 6 Boxster engine that was unique to Porsche.
Yep i get that - BUT 981/ 987 are mid engine - so different enough - guess the 911 is such an institution now - they dare not compete with it...
Agreed
Ehmm not a pissing match yet - just saying - not raining on anyone's parade - i think the video's i have seen - it looks like a lot of fun - but there is something special about the Flat 6 Boxster engine that was unique to Porsche.
#22
What made me choose a 718 over a 981 were better performance (especially at the low end) and the interior seating choices (love the Black/Bordeaux all leather seats). Those two factors combined outweighed any difference in engine note for me.
#23
Rennlist Member
Can't seem to come to this forum and learn anything other than mine is better than yours?
Agreed I think we need to separate these. It is getting stale.
I wanted to love the 718 in the worst way. When I saw the orange one they had at Parade in 2016 I was set to buy on the spot. My wife and i both drove a number of 718BS's and both came to the same conclusion. To our chagrin we walked away far from enchanted and got far less out of the experience than we do our older and slower 964 C2. The 981 is one of the few modern cars that has some similarity and that is why I purchased one. The older cars might not be as fast or easy to drive but offer an experience that these newer cars have lost. A car like this, especially a Boxster the sound is critical. I had a base 981 and I would take that over the 718S I found it a more engaging experience. Slow no doubt but interactive and engaging. These are not cars about ultimate speed (at least not for me) and the experience should be well rounded and sound is as important as performance and handling. I have driven them both on closed courses and the handling might be a bit quicker but not enough to make a difference IMO some of the styling is an improvement and some not to my taste. I was well above 6 figures to get what I have in my 981BGTS and that is way overpriced for what it is IMO.
US sales speak volumes and right now it is not selling as well as the 981 did even at its worst, although the Cayenne was a hard sell in 2003 and 2004. It took time to become a huge success and kept Porsche in the money. No doubt the potential is there for a track rod but I have seen more pumped out of the Audi and VW 2.0L four bangers than these so far and not sure how far you can push them.
Drive what you like but as I see it the 718 has become the entry level (beginner) Porsche all over again as where we seemed to be getting away from that with the 981.
I think we're going to have to eventually separate the 987/81 forums and the 718 forums. Every single thread on it ends up in a pissing match with neither side winning, or so it seems. I prefer the 6 cyl as well, but it is silly to base a purchase price just on the cylinder count (hell, most of us could afford at least V8's if not V10's, right, but we choose flat sixes for many other reasons?) They're different powerplants for different goals. I like the 718 more than its competition, just not as much as my 981S.
I tried one, I liked it, I bought one.
Thought about buying used 981S to save money but couldn't figure out why I would want to lug an extra two cylinders around when they don't add to performance. I've never made a car purchase that centered around the sound. (By the way, if I were going for sound I would be buying Ferrari or Aston Martin)
I think the uproar by some because of the sound is completely disproportionate to the upgrades. Reviewers have been whining about sound and "soul" frequently about many cars for the past few years. It's a tired refrain. Last week, I had to spit out my coffee listening to Jeremy Clarkson bitch about lack of "soul" and sound from the new Ford GT with a turbo V6.
Finally I find forum speculation about this car going away because of slower US sales but still strong international sales is completely misplaced.
I made my bet. Now we will see. I'm rooting for all you folks who stepped up to the challenge and bought one.
Thought about buying used 981S to save money but couldn't figure out why I would want to lug an extra two cylinders around when they don't add to performance. I've never made a car purchase that centered around the sound. (By the way, if I were going for sound I would be buying Ferrari or Aston Martin)
I think the uproar by some because of the sound is completely disproportionate to the upgrades. Reviewers have been whining about sound and "soul" frequently about many cars for the past few years. It's a tired refrain. Last week, I had to spit out my coffee listening to Jeremy Clarkson bitch about lack of "soul" and sound from the new Ford GT with a turbo V6.
Finally I find forum speculation about this car going away because of slower US sales but still strong international sales is completely misplaced.
I made my bet. Now we will see. I'm rooting for all you folks who stepped up to the challenge and bought one.
US sales speak volumes and right now it is not selling as well as the 981 did even at its worst, although the Cayenne was a hard sell in 2003 and 2004. It took time to become a huge success and kept Porsche in the money. No doubt the potential is there for a track rod but I have seen more pumped out of the Audi and VW 2.0L four bangers than these so far and not sure how far you can push them.
Drive what you like but as I see it the 718 has become the entry level (beginner) Porsche all over again as where we seemed to be getting away from that with the 981.
#24
I hate to tell you this but the Cayman/Boxster has always been, and will probably always be, an entry level Porsche. Look, it's pretty simple, if you like sound over increased performance, handling and braking, then the 981 is for you.
#25
As has been said, the Cayman/Boxster have been the "entry level" Porsches. Nothing wrong with that.
The only difference is that with the whining about the sound of the 718, it is now clear that Porsche has final proof that they have made the complete transition from a performance car company to an aspirational lifestyle brand company. They have been working on it for years. Mission Accomplished.
The only difference is that with the whining about the sound of the 718, it is now clear that Porsche has final proof that they have made the complete transition from a performance car company to an aspirational lifestyle brand company. They have been working on it for years. Mission Accomplished.
#26
Rennlist Member
I love novices
#28
Rennlist Member
The wealth of info I provide to most of the forums is what impresses people. I help countless people each and every day and have decades of experience. I am not here to impress you or anyone else. I am proud of buying the right cars at the right time and if you grew up and understood what Porsche meant and means to so many than we wouldn't be having these conversations.
I have said the 718 is a very capable car but it does not follow IMO the key aspect of what Porsche stood for or their product was intended to do. It is all about sales and performance specs vs making the ultimate engaging road car and IMO they missed the mark with the 718.
The classic department which is huge with Porsche now tests their employees and one question I have used before is
Understanding the Porsche philosophy of building cars is a major part of appreciating the uniqueness of owning a Porsche. A central point in this is that Porsche
A- Is the best transportation you can buy
B- is entertainment that enriches your life
C- is the most advanced concept in automotive design
D- is the best value in sports cars.
The 718 IMO falls more under A or C. If you disagree that is up to you but the answer is B- is entertainment that enriches your life. The 718 for me does not do this as much as the 981 does.
Another question is
Porsche's engineering philosophy is that Porsche must be
A- A pleasure to drive
B- A pleasure to look at
C- A pleasure to own
D- All of the above.
The answer is D- All of the above. I think it clearly covers B, I am assuming C as well. I won't say A is out of the question by any means however I find the 981 to offer more of A than the 718.
No doubt these are the low end of the product line and the base cars are the entry level for both 981 and 718. Although there is a huge difference between being an entry level car vs part of the product line and the 981 was becoming an accepted part of the Porsche line as an equal. The 718's are attracting new owners primarily and to me this makes it more of an entry level car (a very expensive one at that) vs part of the product line. Not much different than the 914 and 924 was back in the day.
Not sure why we have to keep addressing this we are at a stalemate here and for some reason the 718 owners need the 981 owners to concede that the 718 is better (whatever that means). It is IMO a lateral move at best and not a forward one you seem to want us to admit to.
I have said the 718 is a very capable car but it does not follow IMO the key aspect of what Porsche stood for or their product was intended to do. It is all about sales and performance specs vs making the ultimate engaging road car and IMO they missed the mark with the 718.
The classic department which is huge with Porsche now tests their employees and one question I have used before is
Understanding the Porsche philosophy of building cars is a major part of appreciating the uniqueness of owning a Porsche. A central point in this is that Porsche
A- Is the best transportation you can buy
B- is entertainment that enriches your life
C- is the most advanced concept in automotive design
D- is the best value in sports cars.
The 718 IMO falls more under A or C. If you disagree that is up to you but the answer is B- is entertainment that enriches your life. The 718 for me does not do this as much as the 981 does.
Another question is
Porsche's engineering philosophy is that Porsche must be
A- A pleasure to drive
B- A pleasure to look at
C- A pleasure to own
D- All of the above.
The answer is D- All of the above. I think it clearly covers B, I am assuming C as well. I won't say A is out of the question by any means however I find the 981 to offer more of A than the 718.
No doubt these are the low end of the product line and the base cars are the entry level for both 981 and 718. Although there is a huge difference between being an entry level car vs part of the product line and the 981 was becoming an accepted part of the Porsche line as an equal. The 718's are attracting new owners primarily and to me this makes it more of an entry level car (a very expensive one at that) vs part of the product line. Not much different than the 914 and 924 was back in the day.
Not sure why we have to keep addressing this we are at a stalemate here and for some reason the 718 owners need the 981 owners to concede that the 718 is better (whatever that means). It is IMO a lateral move at best and not a forward one you seem to want us to admit to.
#29
Rennlist Member
#30
I have said the 718 is a very capable car but it does not follow IMO the key aspect of what Porsche stood for or their product was intended to do. It is all about sales and performance specs vs making the ultimate engaging road car and IMO they missed the mark with the 718.
The classic department which is huge with Porsche now tests their employees and one question I have used before is
Understanding the Porsche philosophy of building cars is a major part of appreciating the uniqueness of owning a Porsche. A central point in this is that Porsche
A- Is the best transportation you can buy
B- is entertainment that enriches your life
C- is the most advanced concept in automotive design
D- is the best value in sports cars.
The 718 IMO falls more under A or C. If you disagree that is up to you but the answer is B- is entertainment that enriches your life. The 718 for me does not do this as much as the 981 does.
Understanding the Porsche philosophy of building cars is a major part of appreciating the uniqueness of owning a Porsche. A central point in this is that Porsche
A- Is the best transportation you can buy
B- is entertainment that enriches your life
C- is the most advanced concept in automotive design
D- is the best value in sports cars.
The 718 IMO falls more under A or C. If you disagree that is up to you but the answer is B- is entertainment that enriches your life. The 718 for me does not do this as much as the 981 does.
Another question is
Porsche's engineering philosophy is that Porsche must be
A- A pleasure to drive
B- A pleasure to look at
C- A pleasure to own
D- All of the above.
The answer is D- All of the above. I think it clearly covers B, I am assuming C as well. I won't say A is out of the question by any means however I find the 981 to offer more of A than the 718..
Porsche's engineering philosophy is that Porsche must be
A- A pleasure to drive
B- A pleasure to look at
C- A pleasure to own
D- All of the above.
The answer is D- All of the above. I think it clearly covers B, I am assuming C as well. I won't say A is out of the question by any means however I find the 981 to offer more of A than the 718..
Let's just agree to disagree, and move on. It's getting tiresome.
Last edited by lajoiedp; 02-14-2018 at 12:29 PM.