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982 GT4 Spyder?

 
Old 04-17-2019, 08:17 PM
  #1441  
Marine Blue
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The original 89 Speedster was a site to behold, it truly transformed the look of the 911 and was jaw dropping IMHO. The designs that came after it always looked like Porsche was trying too hard and resulted in a “heavy” rear appearance. The 997 was by far the worst offender, I remember seeing it in the showroom and It never grew on me, the R8 Spider sitting next to it didn’t help as it was beautiful.

Having said that I do think the 991 is one of the best executed since the 89. It seems Porsche toned down the humps and the car is bigger overall so it flows better. It also looks far better in person. I would love to own one but at the price it’s ridiculous.

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Old 04-18-2019, 10:28 AM
  #1442  
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Originally Posted by n4v4nod View Post
... I think you are right about the Speedster being a great lure to the Spyder. . . .
The Heritage Design Package on the Speedster apparently will cost you $24,510, which, when added to the $275K MSRP, puts you at $300K (before markup). For folks with the wherewithal to buy a Speedster I have to think that most would check the box for the Heritage Package (what's another $25K when you're at this price point?) and personalize the car with their favorite number. Given how great the 982 Spyder is likely to be at certainly half, if not a third, of the cost of a Speedster, a potential Speedster owner will need to do some soul searching. And let's keep in mind that if history is any indication, the Spyder, too, will be made in limited numbers so it, too, will be fairly exclusive. With talk of 600-700 Speedsters coming to the U.S. (or NA) and past NA Spyder production being in the range of 800-900 cars, the Speedster could be only slightly more rare than a 982 Spyder.

As you said, Spyder can be viewed as a poor man's Speedster.
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:50 AM
  #1443  
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As you said, Spyder can be viewed as a poor man's Speedster.[/QUOTE]

I don't see it as a "poor man's Speedster." It will have less HP. But it will also weigh considerably less. In addition, the platform is different and it drives differently. I love my 981 Spyder. I also love my 911R. They are different but equally great. My concern is that the new Spyder will gain considerable weight as the 911R Speedster prototype (topless) did. When I first saw the prototype 3 years ago it weighed less than a 911R. The production car, more based on a GT3 than R, is 200lbs more. So if you do some quick (not precise) math and take the published weight of a manual GT3 (3116 lbs) and add the top and new EU emissions exhaust system you have the weight of the new Speedster.

I was told that the motor for the Speedster is completely new and I would notice a difference as compared to my 911R. I believe he meant a positive difference. I was also told the development cost of the motor was contributing to the price of the car. That motor will find its way into a new 992.1 GT3. This all seems to be directly related to EU emissions standards. I have no info as to whether the new Spyder motor is based on this new GT3 motor or some configuration of the the old motor. I was originally told the Spyder would have 420hp. I'm certain it will have some new EU (heavier) compliant exhaust system.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:29 AM
  #1444  
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Originally Posted by Suitcase View Post
I don't see it as a "poor man's Speedster." It will have less HP. But it will also weigh considerably less. In addition, the platform is different and it drives differently.
I agree the Speedster and Spyder are very different cars in many ways, as you note, but I think the "poor man's Speedster" characterization of the Spyder is fair given the many similarities the two cars do share (despite their vastly different price points), most notably:


  • both are strictly two seater convertibles
  • both have very similar manually-operated roofs
  • both have 6-speed-only transmissions (unless 982 Spyder is offered with PDK)
  • both are NA
  • both employ extra weight-saving measures in an effort to keep bloat to a minimum (with questionable results on the Speedster)
  • if the Spyder is breathed on by AP, which many believe to be the case, both cars will be GT offerings
  • both cars share the same design "ethos" and are marketed toward the "purist" enthusiast

Basically, if you're in the market for a NA convertible P-car, these two are the only game in town.

Originally Posted by Suitcase View Post
My concern is that the new Spyder will gain considerable weight . . . .
I also share your concern. The 987 weighed in at 2,811 lbs. and the 981 only gained 88 lbs. to 2,899. My guess is the 982 will weigh in over 3,000 lbs., but hopefully not "well" over.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:06 AM
  #1445  
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[QUOTE=Suicide Jockey;15784135]I agree the Speedster and Spyder are very different cars in many ways, as you note, but I think the "poor man's Speedster" characterization of the Spyder is fair given the many similarities the two cars do share (despite their vastly different price points), most notably:


  • both are strictly two seater convertibles
  • both have very similar manually-operated roofs
  • both have 6-speed-only transmissions (unless 982 Spyder is offered with PDK)
  • both are NA
  • both employ extra weight-saving measures in an effort to keep bloat to a minimum (with questionable results on the Speedster)
  • if the Spyder is breathed on by AP, which many believe to be the case, both cars will be GT offerings
  • both cars share the same design "ethos" and are marketed toward the "purist" enthusiast

Basically, if you're in the market for a NA convertible P-car, these two are the only game in town.

I agree that the cars have a similar ethos. But I don't find that spending less than 100k on a good 981 Spyder is a compromise. Too often we associate a cars capabilities with its value or cost. The cars go up and down depending on the economy and the flavor of the day. The cars capabilities don't change. Sometimes I think a car is worth more than its cost or market value. More often I think its worth less. Look at the 997 Speedster? So no need to feel "poor man" regardless. I just hope the new Spyder is as good as the last one. If I had to choose a new Speedster or my 981 Spyder (and that's probably the case) I'm certain I'd love the HP of the Speedster. But I'd probably miss the smaller, lighter platform. And one more thing...I like to pick up my cars in Europe. I believe the Spyder has more storage than the Speedster. Two people on holiday for two weeks the Speedster storage seems a bit light. There's not a lot of room behind the seats.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:53 AM
  #1446  
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^^^^^^^^^^
Apologies for totally misunderstanding why you don't feel the Spyder should be considered "a poor man's Speedster." I thought you viewed the two cars as being so dissimilar as to prevent meaningful comparison with the Speedster being a vastly superior car to the Spyder. In fact, it seems you feel as I do that the Spyder is a very special offering such that no Spyder owner need feel any inferiority complex when it comes to the Speedster. We're both in total agreement.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:21 AM
  #1447  
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I can't imagine the assertion the new Spyder will be a GT offering is true. What open top car is GT now? Seems very much against Porsche's DNA. GT suspension would ruin it. It needs road manners over track prowess. It will be quicker than the old without GT anything. PDK alone would accomplish that. Throw in the current 991.2 S motor (which is my guess based on the exhaust layout), and you get your 420 hp without trying too hard, which is current Porsche DNA as well.
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:41 AM
  #1448  
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Speedster is ugly.

Spyder is a beauty.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:20 PM
  #1449  
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
I can't imagine the assertion the new Spyder will be a GT offering is true. What open top car is GT now?
Uhhhh...the Speedster...
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:06 PM
  #1450  
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Originally Posted by unclemat View Post
Speedster is ugly.

Spyder is a beauty.
Agreed but we might be in the minority.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:50 PM
  #1451  
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Originally Posted by JAhmed View Post
Uhhhh...the Speedster...
Close-est for sure, but you're aren't going to see many if any in the wild other than parked in front of the most expensive steak house in your town on a Friday night. They'll be just like Harleys that they need an annual battery from non-use.

Well the Speedster certainly has Porsche Motorsport DNA, and is marketed as a GT3 convertible but it's actually based on the 991 Carrera 4 cabriolet with some GT3 suspension tuning (front only). I certainly draw a line between it and cars carrying an actual GT badge.

At 2X the price of a GT3, the Speedster benefits from quite a lengthy list of carbon fiber bits to get the thing well under the curb weight of a 991 Carrera 4 for which it's based (3400 pounds to 3200+). So it's definitely GT like, but more meant to be pretty and sound mean than find its way mixing it up with GT cars on a track. Same for the Spyder versus the GT4.

Do you see Porsche going to any of that costly effort for the next Spyder? Nein. They can't sell a Spyder for over $120k US (fully loaded). So if Porsche Motorsport gets to influence the Spyder like they kind of did for the Speedster, don't expect too much.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:50 PM
  #1452  
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Originally Posted by unclemat View Post
Speedster is ugly.

Spyder is a beauty.
Originally Posted by digitalrurouni View Post
Agreed but we might be in the minority.
I don't think so.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:55 PM
  #1453  
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Originally Posted by JAhmed View Post
Uhhhh...the Speedster...
Plus the 718 Spyder has been extensively tested on the track... Where the previous wasn't. Additionally... All test cars have been wearing GT4 wheels, tires (Cups) and Brakes. Then there was the comment way back a couple years ago at from AP... stating that they wanted to work on the 981 Spyder, but didn't have the bandwidth... and asked the crowd if they would like to see a GT Spyder... and if IIRC everyone cheered. So there are a lot of indications that the GT department worked on the 718 Spyder this go around.
Not saying it's a good thing though. I much prefer the 987 Spyder approach... but unfortunately that won't happen. Instead we get a Fake version called the "T".
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Old 04-19-2019, 04:03 PM
  #1454  
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Originally Posted by n4v4nod View Post
Plus the 718 Spyder has been extensively tested on the track... Where the previous wasn't. Additionally... All test cars have been wearing GT4 wheels, tires (Cups) and Brakes. Then there was the comment way back a couple years ago at from AP... stating that they wanted to work on the 981 Spyder, but didn't have the bandwidth... and asked the crowd if they would like to see a GT Spyder... and if IIRC everyone cheered. So there are a lot of indications that the GT department worked on the 718 Spyder this go around.
Not saying it's a good thing though. I much prefer the 987 Spyder approach... but unfortunately that won't happen. Instead we get a Fake version called the "T".
Not sure how you're so sure how much the 981 Spyder was or wasn't tested on track as much, or if it even matters. Porsche set out to make the 981 Soyder a road car, so that's what we got and I for one prefer the way it drives versus the GT4 for road duty (having owned both). It's possible that Porsche will bring the 2 closer together for one "economic" reason alone. The 982 has no X73 suspension offering so Porsche won't be able to dip into the parts bin for anything more special and more track worthy than Sport PASM. Doubt a new GT4 would get a production suspension so whatever the GT4 gets could be perceived a better option for the Spyder than the lesser Sport PASM option. Is Porsche going to make a unique suspension for the Spyder. Doesn't seem a good ROI. But at this point I lean toward Porsche keeping the Spyder a back road machine. In another thread today some guy is whining about X73 being too stiff to use on any road that isn't billiard table smooth. Not only can't you please everyone, you can't please anyone. I say let the Germans design and build the cars and let Americans influence as little as possible. They're better at it.
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Old 04-19-2019, 04:09 PM
  #1455  
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
I say let the Germans design and build the cars and let Americans influence as little as possible. They're better at it.
I agree with this statement... except if we did, we might not have manual transmissions? But that discussion is a whole other can of worms.

I hope I'm wrong and that they make it ultra lightweight as possible... canyon carver... with amazing sound and feel... but I just feel like that is a pipe dream nowadays with Porsche.
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