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911 owners, did you also get a 981/718 later on?

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Old 01-06-2018, 02:21 PM
  #16  
MidEngineRules
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
Crazy to think that the Boxster is celebrating 25 years today and itís finally starting to get the recognition it deserves.
And the fact the Boxster saved Porsche from extinction. The Boxster has a lot more in common with the roots of Porsche than the 911. Go figure.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
And the fact the Boxster saved Porsche from extinction. The Boxster has a lot more in common with the roots of Porsche than the 911. Go figure.
I believe that the 996 also helped Porsche from a financial perspective. The 993 was the last 911 that was built using the old Porsche methodology.
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
I believe that the 996 also helped Porsche from a financial perspective. The 993 was the last 911 that was built using the old Porsche methodology.
Actually the 964 was the last of the old school hand built cars. Porsche started using JIT techniques on the 993 although only in its basic form but they didnít implement significant assembly modernization until the 996, thatís when Porsche went to a more modern production line.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
I believe that the 996 also helped Porsche from a financial perspective.
It's the Boxster alone that saved Porsche. But of course every sale mattered. 911 sales had been dismal for years which is what brought Porsche to the brink. The much more affordability and personality of the Boxster was just in the nick of time.
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post


Actually the 964 was the last of the old school hand built cars. Porsche started using JIT techniques on the 993 although only in its basic form but they didnít implement significant assembly modernization until the 996, thatís when Porsche went to a more modern production line.
I lived in Germany during these years and Porsche would invite organizations to visit the factory to talk about their new approach to quality manufacturing. My org was invited several times. It wasn't just modernization. It was Porsche's decision to take a more quality production approach which is credited with transforming the company. For years they had knowingly let cars with production mistakes leave the factory and force the cars to get fixed at the port of entry or at dealers. Ensuring quality at the factory made all the difference, and fixing ALL issues before leaving the factory. This all happened during the 996 production years. By the time the 997 was introduced there were considerably less production mistakes to deal with, and significantly fewer for the dealer network to solve.
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Old 01-06-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
I lived in Germany during these years and Porsche would invite organizations to visit the factory to talk about their new approach to quality manufacturing. My org was invited several times. It wasn't just modernization. It was Porsche's decision to take a more quality production approach which is credited with transforming the company. For years they had knowingly let cars with production mistakes leave the factory and force the cars to get fixed at the port of entry or at dealers. Ensuring quality at the factory made all the difference, and fixing ALL issues before leaving the factory. This all happened during the 996 production years. By the time the 997 was introduced there were considerably less production mistakes to deal with, and significantly fewer for the dealer network to solve.
Wow I would have loved to see that progression!

So did you see the changes implemented with each new model and can you explain it in more detail based upon your own observations? I know there are plenty of books out there that discuss this but I always like reading about it from a variety of sources as everyone sees different things.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:18 PM
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I too have only had 911's until last year when I traded in my 991.1 C4S cabrio for a 2012 987.2 Boxster S. To me, the Boxster is the best convertible Porsche makes. Its the ideal size with plenty of power. Over the summer, I drove it daily everywhere from trips to the grocery store, Costco, work, long and short drives. I wouldn't give it a second thought, just hop in and go.

For my previous 911's, especially the GT3, I had to actually think about the trip before I got in the car. That is to say, I wanted to make sure the drive was over 20 minutes to properly warm up the engine. Also, if I was going to go to the city, what was the parking situation like. Just more thought had to go into it. I don't know if this was because the 911 is a more expensive car and I was just more careful/paranoid or if the 911 really required more precautions.

That being said, I am currently looking to get another 911 in addition to the Boxster. The Boxster is such an awesome convertible and there really is nothing like a 911.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
Wow I would have loved to see that progression!

So did you see the changes implemented with each new model and can you explain it in more detail based upon your own observations? I know there are plenty of books out there that discuss this but I always like reading about it from a variety of sources as everyone sees different things.
We had factory tours and mainly discussions with the higher ups. They kept discussions at a 50,000 ft view. in other words, broad. But one thing you knew was they were very proud of their turnaround. Germany itself was going through its own progression like deregulating state services like communications. The last 15 years have brought about considerable change, and progression. During the 2006 World Cup I witnessed what seemed to be the first time you really detected public national pride among Germans. They are a great people and great nation and I love their community spirit. I felt very at home there. And driving as fast as I wanted was such a plus. The downside was having to wash your car often to remove all the bug guts (summer months). I thought I was a good driver until living there. Now I know I am Germany is all about safety and consideration to others.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by crossroads View Post
...and there really is nothing like a 911.
I agree if you add "older" before 911, as in air cooled. 911s these days are so advanced and automated (electronic and mechanical driving aids) that the driving experience is becoming highly muted. If going fast I want to feel like I'm going fast. The non-GT 991s are really isolating these days. Being the most evolved car in history is cool. But that evolution has near completely taken it away from the visceral experience it once commanded. There's a guy in my neighborhood who has a GT4 and a early 70s orange Targa (with duck tail) in beautiful condition. Raw, visceral, nice! The sound that car makes is amazing. I'm sure it's a blast to drive, even as slow as it is compared to modern cars.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:20 PM
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Two very different cars:
GT3 - 475hp, PDK-S, RWS, Rear Engine, wider tires, traditional 911 type handling, 200 lbs more weight, faster on street and track....9k redline!
GT4 - 385 hp, 6 speed, no RWS,Mid engine, less wide tires, very neutral handling, 200 lbs less weight, slower but more involving and entertaining....IMHO

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Old 01-06-2018, 09:16 PM
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I own/owned both
they are not redundant at all .
I love the mid engine feel on twisty roads.
on the inside 911 feels more substantial i.e bigger , but the quality of material is the same
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:38 PM
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Yes; I will let you know how it evolves! Just picked up a '13 Boxster S, 6MT.
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Old 01-06-2018, 10:45 PM
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mis-posted
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:26 AM
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Love my Boxsters
Couldnt choose between manual and PDK , so had to have both
seeing as they are such value
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
I lived in Germany during these years and Porsche would invite organizations to visit the factory to talk about their new approach to quality manufacturing. My org was invited several times. It wasn't just modernization. It was Porsche's decision to take a more quality production approach which is credited with transforming the company. For years they had knowingly let cars with production mistakes leave the factory and force the cars to get fixed at the port of entry or at dealers. Ensuring quality at the factory made all the difference, and fixing ALL issues before leaving the factory. This all happened during the 996 production years. By the time the 997 was introduced there were considerably less production mistakes to deal with, and significantly fewer for the dealer network to solve.
I have to disagree with this. In many ways the older cars are superior in build quality. I work on a lot of restorations and the older cars do have variations but I would not consider them production mistakes and if anything is what makes these cars so great and sought after. I know a large number of people that either own Porsche dealerships since the 70's, are 30+ year Porsche mechanics and or sold these cars and never have I heard them complain about build issues more so than today. I was recently talking to a long time veteran Porsche mechanic and his comment was give him the air cooled-days when these cars were built like tanks and other than specific known design faults rarely had any build issues from the factory.

Porsche prior to the 993 spent a lot of time making sure no car left the factory with any production mistakes. In fact the cost to pull the cars off to the side of the assembly line and have a crew correct or fix the issues prior to release was what was costing so much. There are many videos and lots of info how these issues were addressed and the cars all met a minimum criteria before they would be released. In some ways their objective to fix all mistakes prior to release seemed to release cars with fewer issues albeit at a huge expense. The 993 was released at a cost of $5k less than the previous 964/911 this was attributed to the reduction of costs associated with how the car was previously built. I have worked on a lot of 993's and I find more of what I would consideer production mistakes with them then I have with all of the 964 and earlier 911's I have worked on especially the early 94-95 993's. The introduction of "just in time" practices and bringing in Toyota and other Japanese manufacturers to help streamline the process was no doubt what saved them from bankruptcy also IMO diminished the overall quality of the end product and was the turning point where these cars started becoming more GT than sports car. A lot has been learned since and these cars are all now built much differently than the early air-cooled.

What i would agree with is that the new approach to building these cars kept suppliers from providing parts with issues that needed addressing before the car could be released and streamlining the build approach resulted in less pre release issues needing correction. I will always prefer the build quality of the older cars it gives them a hand crafted feel that was lost when they changed their approach although I fully understand that it was a necessary evil.

As far as the mid engined 981/718's these cars have come so far. I picked up a 981 GTS and it is nearly as much fun as my 964's. I wanted a GT4 or Spyder but the wife wanted a ragtop and the spyder was dismissed due to more effort to open and close the top than a basic boxster's one button approach. I truly enjoy driving the car although it is far too easy to drive fast as are most of the newer Porsche's and it does not challenge and thrill me as much but is easier to just get in and drive so I find I drive it more often then I initially expected I would. Before I purchased the 981BGTS I test drove many 718BS's and I was not as thrilled as I was with the 981. As much as I enjoy the new 911/GT3's they are just boring to drive unless you are doing well into the triple digits and are far to large for my tastes.
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