Archimedes

The 718 is like a woman with a hot body who’s great in bed, but she looks like she was hit in the face with a shovel and she rips farts the whole time you’re banging her. Strangely, some of us prefer something other than that.

randr

Thats your subjective view.

A lot of of 718 owners clearly disagree with and are very happy with their purchases.

They are certainly happy with the increase in performance.

Its simple, people prefer performance which is objective over noise which is subjective.

Have you anything of merit to say about the 718, have you even driven one for anything more than a test drive. Or do you like to poison new members purchases.

Erudite is interesting crude is banal.

baege

thing is it's not just about the noise

I have owned 4 cyl, 6cyl na's and 8's over the years

some of the 4cyl's turbos were faster than the sixes I owned, but I preferred the sixes and eight's not just because of the sound, but because of the balance and smoothness of those engines and because of the better response of NA, no turbo lag



objective facts:
sixes and eights are smoother than 4's
NA engines are more responsive and less laggy than turbos

so when Chris Harris says he 718 has lost soul compared to the 981 it's not just about sound...

R_Rated

These types of comments come from pretentious magazine racers that are more into brand status and showing off money spent that actual driving enjoyment. Also - consistent comments from people that rely on magazines to tell them what cars are "cool" instead of actually driving them.

R_Rated

I would hope the 718 owners are happy... but the general population has voted with their wallets and the sales numbers are worse than during the financial crisis in 2009. How many people that could get a new car - didn't? IMO that speaks louder.

randr

Virtually all sports car sales are down (significantly) in the US. This is well reported. Its part of a general long term trend.

cobalt

Not looking to bash the 718 it is a very capable car and well engineered. I like the updated styling and features that are offered on all new Porsche's but that doesn't make me want to buy one especially when I spec it to my likes the price is just too much for what it offers..

Just picked up my 18 Macan GTS Saturday. Fantatsic ride and I actually enjoy driving it more than a 718S. I have driven several 718S both boxster and cayman. Even at the Porsche driving experience it proved how capable it was but still left me disinterested. I just can't get around the lack of engagement the car offers unless you are at WOT. It starts with the VW beetle sound inside and Subaru sound outside at low rpms. To me the turbo lag is more obvious than the Macan GTS and even the Macan GTS sounds far better with a turbo engine.

The only people I know buying a 718 are first time Porsche owners and they love them. For us diehard 30+ year Porsche drivers I find nearly all have the same opinion of the car. Capable but not inspiring as I have found most of the reviews I have read. Interestingly the first time buyers are awe struck by the car and don't get what people like me are saying because to them this is their first real sports car.

Speaking with all the sales guys I know they claim the 718 is a disaster. Can't move them and have some very very nice examples on the showroom floor that they can't get people to buy. Meanwhile 991 especially GTS and GT3 sales are rocking.

I agree a well tuned 981 GTS is just as fast or faster and each is equally as capable and far more engaging. Unfortunately the 981 has the same tranny as the GT4 and will not handle the upgraded performance so expect to have it replaced and hopefully under warranty. Especially if you track it.

These cars are great and as much as I prefer the 981 over the 718 I still place them all down the list for fun to drive over my older air cooled 911's. Yes these cars keep getting faster but that doesn't make it worth buying in my book. Overall experience is lacking for me the car drives itself as most experienced drivers I know are getting sloppy driving these newer cars on track. I guess if I want to move up from my 981 GTS I will need to consider the next gen 718 spyder or GT4.

It is not that the 718 is not a very capable car. No doubt it is and then some. For me it lacks the experience the 981 and older Porsche's offer and has numbed the car down from what Porsche's used to offer in my book.

PS: they are claiming stupidly ridiculous pricing for the new GTS. Anyone know what actual pricing should be? I highly doubt they will be $175k I don't know how will buy one at that price. LOL

Archimedes

And I'm glad they are and my point is that it's all subjective and in the eye of the beholder. You're the only tard on here trying to argue that better vs. worse all comes down to numbers on a spec sheet.

randr

Its not about numbers - its about the driving experience. It delivers it in spades. Every component of handling and braking has been improved. It is that simple. You can feel it when you drive it - through every corner, its reflected in lap times. Thus it means its a great drivers car. The sound doesn't govern the handling, braking, cornering, acceleration.

I will say this once, and only once, you have shown yourself to be both crude and ignorant - I suggest you never ever use the word "tard". It may be be the internet but your last few posts clearly identify the man behind the key board. And it has been found wanting.

I asked you a straight question, have you ever driven the 718 or 718S - I have for three days inc. one day on track. My comments are based on that driving experience. They are accurate.

cobalt

I guess I missed this part. I just don't feel it and I have driven most Porsche's. The only advantage i found was the torque of the turbo motor under WOT. Most I see on track are no faster than their 981 counterpart. Call it drivers skill or not but times are pretty much the same in stock form by advanced drivers. Pro drivers are another story.

Not much different than the 991 Turbo S's I have driven. Very fast and capable but unless you're doing 150 mph pretty much a big yawn.

We get that you like it and that is great. They accomplished their goal by satisfying you but to insist it is an improvement is your subjective opinion and one I and others I know would disagree with. More of a lateral step IMO. Nothing wrong with that no doubt the next gen will take it a step further performance wise but will it be as engaging as the cars of the past?

randr

Unfortunately, the improvements can be objectively method. Handling can be defined by friction circles and many tests - these objective measures reveal the truth. You may not like it, but nontheless thats what metrics do.

I also happen to own a 991.2 S X51 and its a superb drivers car - as can be shown by its blistering lap times. The handling is superb due to rear the axle steering.

None of this is subjective, it is actually measurable e.g. through telemetry - which I collect regularly through various sprint series and hill climbs

cobalt

To me this is ruining these cars. I find them boring to drive. They require less and less skill to drive at the limits and offer only speed and no challenge other than going fast.

I watch on track as 991GT3RS's take lines through turns that should kill the driver but the car saves them. Most don't realize that they aren't in control the car is doing all the work. Drivers skill is becoming non existent and everyone is so concerned about lap times. Put these drivers in my track car with no electronics, currently not even ABS, power steering or any stability control and watch how bad these drivers really are. I drove my Boxster GTS on track and achieved excellent times without even trying and it bored me. Even my 19 year old son says it is cheating it is so easy to drive fast. I guess there is a reason why these older cars in such high demand. They offer what has been engineered out of the newer cars and might not be as fast but more than fast enough.

If this is what you enjoy we are happy for you, however for me these new cars have lost all that made driving a Porsche fun and exhilarating. I get more fun and excitement out of driving my 964 turbo 3.6 at moderate speeds than I do driving the newer cars fast. It always brings an ear to ear smile no matter what speed. My Boxster GTS was the closest new Porsche to excite me on the street and it is more about the noises and open top than speed. My C2 with less HP and some modifications just blows it away and is so involving and engaging and best yet keeps up with just about anything on the twisties and sounds so bad *** that all it gets is compliments and heads turning no matter where I go. Occasionally the BGTS gets a thumbs up but nothing compared to the older cars.

I toyed with trading my 94 turbo in for a new GT3 and the response from everyone was if you have gold in your hand why trade it in.

Selo

Unfortunately, this is the kind of language and demeanor we've come to expect from Archimides.

PorscheStrong

Well said, and agreed on your prediction.

randr

I'll respectfully disagree with you

(1) A cars performance is only as good as the driver
(2) Most skilled drivers, have the aids turned off
(3) Most skilled drivers can drive more or less any car fast
(4) As straight line speeds have increased, the ability to hit braking points and trail braking skills have increased
(5) As overall average speeds have increased the ability to read the subtleties of both a track layout and its oft very localised topography - has increased significantly
(6) Modern cars, allow rookie and novice drivers to use their cars and gain skills carefully and without incident (to both themselves and others)
(7) The fast line is always (largely) the fast line with braking points and accelerating points varying as a function of car weight/awd/fwd/rwd
(8) The understanding of the physics and engineering behind driving effectively has improved by a large margin.
(9) To set fast times these days - you have to be very focussed - there is less time for decision making and error recovery, determined, cognisant of the limitations of yourself, the track and car (tires, brakes, downforce etc). The high level of focus required, delivers a high level of engagement.

I very much enjoy and appreciate historic cars, indeed I am looking for a TR6/5 to take part in a number of events. I will enjoy this very much as I do driving my other more "modern" vehicles.