fast1

I understand your perspective, but 911s had very little HP for decades. I remember my first 911 which I purchased in 1970 had less than 200 HP, and Vettes with 350 HP were being offered at that time for about 60% of the price for a 911. Nevertheless, Porsche dealers had a hard time keeping any 911s in their inventory. So there is a lot more than HP when evaluating sports cars. In someways my 100 HP Triumph GT6 gave me the most pleasure of all the cars that I have ever owned. I can still recall all the shifting that I had to to do to get that car go up steep hills. Lots of fun for those who enjoy having lots of involvement in their driving.

K-A

wizee

I'll start by saying there is no right or wrong answer to matters of personal preference. So there is nothing wrong with preferring the alternatives.

With that said, I'd have a hard time making use of more power than a 718 S offers without seriously breaking speed limits in a very short amount of time. If straight line performance is what you want, the four banger 718 S out accelerates most American muscle cars with double the cylinder count and displacement. All while having handling that's in a different league, and much more refinement and interior quality. I've had a lot of fun making use of my Boxster's agility, but I would not be able to make much use of 911 Turbo level power on public roads. Would a little more power than my base 987 be nice? Yes, but the power and wide torque band of the 718 S is plenty for public roads.

Being a 987 owner, and having now driven both 981 and 718 (982) models, I can say with confidence that the 718 is an improvement in most areas. Steering precision and feedback is significantly better on the 718 compared to the 981, and while it may not quite have the feedback of the 987, it's definitely more precise and nimble feeling. The suspension on the 718 is also superb, being slightly better than the 981 and greatly superior to my 987 in agility. The 718 also accelerates much better than its predecessors. The turbo four doesn't scream like the old NA 6 at the top, but it has a better low RPM growl. The different sound isn't too big a loss to me, but it may be to others. The 718 S also has a much flatter and wider torque band than the older NA engines, where you had to wait for the "NA Lag" of crossing 4000 RPM for full the torque to come on.

The only major objective loss on the 718 is the turbo lag on the base (non-S) engine. I will have to say it is bothersome for me at least at low RPMs. I haven't yet driven a 718 S, but I don't expect to be bothered by it as much (due to VTG). I have another turbo four car that I don't object to.

MidEngineRules

I was with you until this. So the 718 has the steering of a 981 Spyder. I would call it a little sharper, a little more direct with my experience owning all generations less the 986, pre and post DFI 987s, including a Cayman R and 2 Spyders (987 and 981). The steering is certainly not significantly better. But it's quite good. I do miss the 987's steering feel as you pointed out. These cars take marginal steps, not huge leaps, which is why there are still so many people with preference to the 987 and/or 981. That's not going to change just because the 718 exists, especially when you can buy a barely used Boxster or Cayman for half the price and get a car just as fun. Suspension also depends on how you optioned a 987 or 981. You had more choice with the 987/981 with the addition of the most expensive X73 sport suspension option versus PASM or the base setup. With X73 the driving dynamic is the best yet in this platform if spirited driving is what you enjoy. Acceleration differences are marginal and it's more about how the car is operated. It's low end power versus upper end power. You can't have both. Just depends on how you like power delivery. I wish we could get beyond the one is good and other is so superior. Leave that to journalists as they're the only ones who are compelled to speak about small changes as giant leaps. If one is a 10 the other is a 9.9. That's how close they are.

K-A

wizee

Yes, I know they are totally different phenomena which I why I used quotes around my term "NA lag". But the idea is that if you're cruising normally around 2000 RPM in some gear, then floor the accelerator, there is a delay before reaching peak torque of the motor in both NA and turbo motors. In a turbo motor with a flat torque curve starting at low RPMs, you wait for the turbo to spool up and that's the turbo lag. For an NA motor, torque feels reduced until you accelerate enough to cross ~4000 RPM and the valve timing changes. This is also a "lag" with a different cause, and different nature. I might have to wait 0.7 seconds for a turbo spool up from low RPM, but wait 2 seconds to accelerate into the power band of an NA motor. If I want full torque right away (which I sometimes enjoy doing when fooling around), I take my NA Boxster over 4000 RPM and then floor it. When I'm over 4000 RPM in a turbo engined vehicle, the turbo is already spooled up and reaches peak boost very quickly, so there isn't much lag to reach peak torque either.

Now yes, the benefit of NA is that whatever little torque there is at low RPMs, you get it all right away. The non-linearity/time dependence of turbo throttle response at low RPMs does bother me. But I also appreciate low end turbo torque as long as it doesn't take too long to come on. I do feel it takes too long on the base 718, but I don't know about the 718 S as I haven't driven one.

K-A

That makes sense and all true. Preferences really determine which "delay" we can tolerate better. I have a 991.1 with the 3.4 (a little more power than the 981 S/GTS) and I actually find the low range torque comes with quite a nice kick, but I have lighter wheels (which really do help) and an X Pipe (which may give some additional HP). I prefer the instant throttle response and linear/crescendo (especially in a Porsche sports car, as every car I feel has a different "theme".... i.e if I have a muscle car, then I crave the low end torque feel) of an N/A, but also did have an absolute ball kicking the tail out with the low end torque on the 718 S I had for a week. I'm really sensitive to turbo lag so it did spoil some of the connection I had with that car, but overall the car was excellent.

Selo

Shew. Just got a 718S as a loaner.
Wasn't it Wm. Shakespeare who said
"That which we call a slush box, by any other name/ will still smell just as rank as any other slush box"?
The manual the cars I've test driven had some redeeming qualities. This one. Yikes.

lajoiedp

I think Wm. Shakespeare also said, "A troll, going under the alias of any other name, still sounds as foolish as any other troll".

kiznarsh

I was hoping for a 718 (even base) as my loaner but all they ever offer are Macans and Cayennes (and 1 Panamera). Or maybe that's what they tell the non-911 owners.

What was wrong with the PDK? I'm assuming they don't offer manual loaner cars.

terbiumactivated

Nothing wrong with it, I learned to drive and was solo at age 8, manual transmission, had one for the next fifty years. I still could never approach PDK nor can anyone else. People just like to cling to the fantasy they are Michael Andretti on the clutch. Most of the people I've seen are much closer to a shop teacher using a sanding wheel on a piece of oak in their clutch engagement, even more so from a dead stop on a slope. There's a reason the race cars are all dual clutch these days. Both iterations are awesome and shifting manually is more fun and engaging no doubt but panning PDK is like the four bangers suck argument all over again.

PorscheAddict

Yep... People not enjoying PDK as much as manual is fine, but claiming it's the same as any old slushbox makes the trolling a bit too obvious to draw the desired response. Got to be more subtle.

Selo

Okay, since I'm being accused of being a troll, I'll share my real opinion with you.: This pdk / 4 cylinder turbo combo drives horribly. I wouldn't pay $40,000 for this car, let alone 75 to $90,000. When I press on the gas, it produces a hollow loud buzz like a Hyundai Elantra 4 cylinder. Base model. And then the turbo kicks in and all hell breaks loose - with even a bigger buzz. Which might be called exhaust but to me it just sounds like buzz. And the car vibrates and rattles.
But hey, if you like it, go buy one. Apparently not too many people are doing just that, from what I hear. So I must not be completely crazy.
Can't spell PDSLUSH KBOX without PDK.

terbiumactivated

Selo, the PDK variants are faster than the MT, first time in Porsche history an automatic was faster, I wonder if you can figure out why that is true?

lajoiedp

With that statement you've just confirm your true troll-dumb. Just another NA 6 Cyl Porsche owner who can't stand the fact that a turbocharge 4 Cyl engine can outperform their NA 6 Cyl.

BTW, 2017 worldwide sales of 718's were up. "718 models have also significantly exceeded the previous year’s figures. Around 25,000 of the mid-engine sports cars were delivered, marking an increase of six per cent." You might want to get your facts straight.