Cayman 981s vs. 718 - Page 5 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Cayman 981s vs. 718

Closed Thread

Old 01-07-2018, 02:15 PM
  #61  
MidEngineRules
User
 
MidEngineRules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 127
Default

This debate will go on forever. When you're talking speed/power differences in these cars you're absolutely splitting hairs. There's no situation where one is great and the other is not. BL if you want a brand new Boxster/Cayman these days you're getting a turbo. I hope I'm around in 20 years to see how the classic car market views these 2 comparatively. One thing for sure is Porsche made a lot of special versions of the 987, with 2 being limited numbered production runs (both Boxsters). They don't seem to be doing that anymore which is a shame. With the 981 you got a GT4 and Spyder, neither numbered but both will have a place in Porsche history. Even if there's a new Spyder it'll have more in common with a 981 than a 718 if equipped with a NA motor. Curious whether Porsche will create a special 718 that goes beyond the normal production runs. Something to lift the turbos in the market. I don't see a turbo 718 having any racing heritage. Does anyone know how well the 718s are doing in sales?
MidEngineRules is offline  
Old 01-07-2018, 06:24 PM
  #62  
Noah Fect
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Noah Fect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,299
Default



Originally Posted by MidEngineRules View Post
Does anyone know how well the 718s are doing in sales?

In the US, they aren't doing well:



I believe that the outlier in May 2017 is actually a mistake on the part of goodcarbadcar.net, because it's both suspiciously high and suspiciously identical to the Cayman sales reported for that month. I think they accidentally reported the combined figure for both models individually. In that light, the numbers definitely look pretty grim.

Still, if you actually plot the data, it's far from clear that the engine change is responsible. The Boxster/Cayman trend line has been heading south at about the same rate for several years, while the 911s are barely holding steady. Meanwhile, the Macan is selling as fast as they can make them.

No solid data yet for rest-of-world sales, but I imagine the 718s are doing much better in the Asian markets, where displacement taxes are such a large part of the sales price and where there is no historical legacy for them to either live up to or fall short of.
Noah Fect is offline  
Old 01-07-2018, 07:48 PM
  #63  
MidEngineRules
User
 
MidEngineRules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 127
Default

Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post
In the US, they aren't doing well:
Clearly Porsche are pricing these cars out of the market. Not that the 981 was much better in that regard. The Cayman and especially the Boxster have become much more refined, but these (S, GTS) shouldn't be pushing $100k. The driving dynamic hasn't changed enough to justify the price doubling in <15 years. I can get just as much driving satisfaction from a nice pre-DFI 987 S as a 718 S.

Last edited by MidEngineRules; 01-07-2018 at 09:25 PM.
MidEngineRules is offline  
Old 01-08-2018, 05:08 PM
  #64  
fast1
Super User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,149
Default

Originally Posted by pc4ever View Post
I don't agree. It isn't a question (and its not the reality in my case) of going fast on public roads, it's about having the instantaneous power to react to common traffic issues. I don't drive faster in my 718S than I did in my 981 GTS, but I really appreciate the ability to quickly accelerate if the situation requires it, without waiting for the engine to hit 4000 RPM. I think of torque as a safety feature here on the crazy roads in NJ.

That said, there are times when hearing the engine scream is great fun, but sunny, traffic-free days on winding roads represents about 10% the time I get to use my car.
When discussing these cars, I believe that it's important to first acknowledge that they are both outstanding cars. When posters like me express some reservations with the 718, some jump to the conclusion that I am bashing the 718. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It's just personal preferences, just like I prefer MT over PDK.

As a long time owner of 911s, I've become accustomed to keeping the engine speed in the upper RPM levels so that I am always in the power band. So I am typically driving a couple gears lower than the average driver. I do agree with your point that the 718 turbo provides a great deal of torque at lower RPM, and that is a feature which most drivers enjoy.
fast1 is offline  
Old 01-08-2018, 05:16 PM
  #65  
fast1
Super User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,149
Default

Originally Posted by Noah Fect View Post



In the US, they aren't doing well:



I believe that the outlier in May 2017 is actually a mistake on the part of goodcarbadcar.net, because it's both suspiciously high and suspiciously identical to the Cayman sales reported for that month. I think they accidentally reported the combined figure for both models individually. In that light, the numbers definitely look pretty grim.

Still, if you actually plot the data, it's far from clear that the engine change is responsible. The Boxster/Cayman trend line has been heading south at about the same rate for several years, while the 911s are barely holding steady. Meanwhile, the Macan is selling as fast as they can make them.

No solid data yet for rest-of-world sales, but I imagine the 718s are doing much better in the Asian markets, where displacement taxes are such a large part of the sales price and where there is no historical legacy for them to either live up to or fall short of.
And let's not forget that you are comparing the last year of a model run for the 981, which typically is the lowest in sales, with the launch year for the 718 which typically is the highest. Hopefully the low sales result in very aggressive discounts for the 718. If I were interested in the 718, I'd be delaying my purchase for a couple of years and look for a great deal on a used 718.
fast1 is offline  
Old 01-08-2018, 08:28 PM
  #66  
MidEngineRules
User
 
MidEngineRules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 127
Default

Originally Posted by fast1 View Post
When discussing these cars, I believe that it's important to first acknowledge that they are both outstanding cars. When posters like me express some reservations with the 718, some jump to the conclusion that I am bashing the 718. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It's just personal preferences, just like I prefer MT over PDK.
Good thoughts. I try to come across that way as well. I'm new here and not looking for enemies. I have peered over at the 991 forum here and there since they are going through the same debate. Rough crowd. Over there it's all about getting their tunes for world domination. The 991 needs a tune like I need another orifice. It's all bragging rights. First to 500 hp I guess! I'll be watching for the first to throw a rod and have Porsche deny their warranty. Forgive me if I smile.
MidEngineRules is offline  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:06 PM
  #67  
Selo
User
 
Selo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 1,168
Default

As much as I love cars that handle, people love acceleration and speed. We love going fast on roller coasters, snowboards, motorcycles, and cars. And the list goes on and on.
If it were all about handling and balance we'd all get a Miata and be done with it.
People want power in an expensive sports car, and for a bare boned version of the Cayman costing $65k or $70k, we've got a lot of choices, some of which have outstanding V8s. The refinement of the 718 is wonderful, but unless I have unlimited access to twisty, deserted roads, I think I'm going to be happier with a car with more of a power/fun quotient.
Selo is online now  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:49 PM
  #68  
lajoiedp
User
Thread Starter
 
lajoiedp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: CT
Posts: 133
Default

Originally Posted by Selo View Post
As much as I love cars that handle, people love acceleration and speed. We love going fast on roller coasters, snowboards, motorcycles, and cars. And the list goes on and on.
If it were all about handling and balance we'd all get a Miata and be done with it.
People want power in an expensive sports car, and for a bare boned version of the Cayman costing $65k or $70k, we've got a lot of choices, some of which have outstanding V8s. The refinement of the 718 is wonderful, but unless I have unlimited access to twisty, deserted roads, I think I'm going to be happier with a car with more of a power/fun quotient.
Are you really comparing the handling and balance of a Miata to a 718 Cayman? I've driven both, and they're not even close. Have you driven a 718? If so, it doesn't have enough power or fun quotient for you?
lajoiedp is offline  
Old 01-09-2018, 08:32 PM
  #69  
Selo
User
 
Selo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 1,168
Default

^ In a sense. I've test driven the 718s a few times. As a stand alone I love it. It has great balance and handling, and at speed it feels perfect. But with a MT, which is all I've driven, it has turbo lag, and I don't enjoy it in any traffic that has stop and go. If it were much less expensive I could tolerate it, but not at these prices. If I build it the way I'd want it I'm in 911 territory. If I go light on the options I'm in Grand Sport territory. If the GT4 and Spyder are NA, there's the answer for me.
Selo is online now  
Old 01-10-2018, 03:58 PM
  #70  
PoorManWantsFun
New User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
Default

I am new to this board and since I couldn't create a new post, I am asking questions here. I haven't owned a German car before but am interested in a 718 Boxster base. Is there such thing as a 718 Boxster (manual) without options? I priced one online at about 58.6k MSRP but when looking at the local dealers (online) they have the ones with a lot of options. This will be my daily as I have a truck for rainy days. Currently I owned a Miata 2016 that is a little over 2 years old (bought it new). Had previously owned two S2000s, a few 350z coupe and convertible.

1) Lets say if I am able to find a 58.6k base Boxster and with 8.75% tax here in socal, what would be a good out the door price for a 2018?

2) Do you guys do your own oil change? I have had free oil change on my Tacoma truck and never used it once. Too much hassle going to dealer ( like a poster here said, only make appointments for doctor).
PoorManWantsFun is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 04:17 PM
  #71  
PorscheAddict
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
PorscheAddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 356
Default

Originally Posted by PoorManWantsFun View Post
I am new to this board and since I couldn't create a new post, I am asking questions here. I haven't owned a German car before but am interested in a 718 Boxster base. Is there such thing as a 718 Boxster (manual) without options? I priced one online at about 58.6k MSRP but when looking at the local dealers (online) they have the ones with a lot of options. This will be my daily as I have a truck for rainy days. Currently I owned a Miata 2016 that is a little over 2 years old (bought it new). Had previously owned two S2000s, a few 350z coupe and convertible.

1) Lets say if I am able to find a 58.6k base Boxster and with 8.75% tax here in socal, what would be a good out the door price for a 2018?

2) Do you guys do your own oil change? I have had free oil change on my Tacoma truck and never used it once. Too much hassle going to dealer ( like a poster here said, only make appointments for doctor).
Welcome to the boards, and hopefully to Porsche ownership soon! They do not build very many stripped Porsche's because most buyers want some level of options and because the profit margin is high on options. If you want it close to stripped, you may have to custom order it (which is not a problem).

1. Price is tough, since there have been some crazy deals on 718's due to low sales, but I'd say $58-$59k OTD would be a good deal. Basically get them to cover your steep tax. You may be able to do better, maybe a little worse.

2. I do. It is cheap, since factory fill is Mobil 1, and fairly easy, although you do have to let it drain 2+ hours which is not normal.

Good luck.
PorscheAddict is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:52 PM
  #72  
PoorManWantsFun
New User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks for your input.
PoorManWantsFun is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:16 PM
  #73  
CaymanSinAR
User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 121
Default

Originally Posted by PoorManWantsFun View Post
I am new to this board and since I couldn't create a new post, I am asking questions here. I haven't owned a German car before but am interested in a 718 Boxster base. Is there such thing as a 718 Boxster (manual) without options? I priced one online at about 58.6k MSRP but when looking at the local dealers (online) they have the ones with a lot of options. This will be my daily as I have a truck for rainy days. Currently I owned a Miata 2016 that is a little over 2 years old (bought it new). Had previously owned two S2000s, a few 350z coupe and convertible.

1) Lets say if I am able to find a 58.6k base Boxster and with 8.75% tax here in socal, what would be a good out the door price for a 2018?

2) Do you guys do your own oil change? I have had free oil change on my Tacoma truck and never used it once. Too much hassle going to dealer ( like a poster here said, only make appointments for doctor).
Haha. I think we "spoke" at miata.net.

Welcome!

Given the good deals on new Boxsters you might even be able to find a lightly used one in your price range with options. As others have said, hard to find a Boxster on a lot without options.
CaymanSinAR is online now  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:20 PM
  #74  
kiznarsh
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
kiznarsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 95
Default

Originally Posted by PoorManWantsFun View Post
I am new to this board and since I couldn't create a new post, I am asking questions here. I haven't owned a German car before but am interested in a 718 Boxster base. Is there such thing as a 718 Boxster (manual) without options? I priced one online at about 58.6k MSRP but when looking at the local dealers (online) they have the ones with a lot of options. This will be my daily as I have a truck for rainy days. Currently I owned a Miata 2016 that is a little over 2 years old (bought it new). Had previously owned two S2000s, a few 350z coupe and convertible.

1) Lets say if I am able to find a 58.6k base Boxster and with 8.75% tax here in socal, what would be a good out the door price for a 2018?

2) Do you guys do your own oil change? I have had free oil change on my Tacoma truck and never used it once. Too much hassle going to dealer ( like a poster here said, only make appointments for doctor).
Finding a stripped manual here in SoCal is definitely gonna be tough but if you're willing to travel a bit, that really opens up your options. If you're open to a used/CPO one, the search tool is pretty handy:

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-custo...ails.ipl?cid=1

There's a manual base Boxster in Livermore for $57.9k with ~3,500 miles.

I also do my own oil changes despite one salesman warning me not to "on a car like this" (whatever that means). Best price I've found has been walmart.com where you can get 10 quarts of Mobil 1 for $50 shipped. New filter, O-ring, and crush washer for another $20 so about $70 in parts instead of paying the dealer $350+.
kiznarsh is offline  
Old 01-10-2018, 06:22 PM
  #75  
PoorManWantsFun
New User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
Default

Originally Posted by PorscheAddict View Post
Welcome to the boards, and hopefully to Porsche ownership soon! They do not build very many stripped Porsche's because most buyers want some level of options and because the profit margin is high on options. If you want it close to stripped, you may have to custom order it (which is not a problem).

1. Price is tough, since there have been some crazy deals on 718's due to low sales, but I'd say $58-$59k OTD would be a good deal. Basically get them to cover your steep tax. You may be able to do better, maybe a little worse.

2. I do. It is cheap, since factory fill is Mobil 1, and fairly easy, although you do have to let it drain 2+ hours which is not normal.

Good luck.
Originally Posted by CaymanSinAR View Post
Haha. I think we "spoke" at miata.net.

Welcome!

Given the good deals on new Boxsters you might even be able to find a lightly used one in your price range with options. As others have said, hard to find a Boxster on a lot without options.
Haha- my username there is tractng. Thinking of doing a switch somewhere in the summer. I haven't driven one but will do soon to see...Good suggestion on used ones.

Thanks for the advice on the oil change. I even changed my own jetski oil (2017 yamaha fx svho). We use a pump to withdraw the oil (no such thing as a drain plug on jetski).
PoorManWantsFun is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: