MidEngineRules

I was simply agreeing and ad-lib'ing. I totally agree with your view with the exception of Cobb but only when it comes to Porsches. FVD's software engineers have worked for Porsche and understand the flat 6 as well as anyone on the planet. Plus you get 2 BMC filters all for $1300. There's no better value out there either.

manifold danger

In fairness, I wouldn't be using Cobb's tune, just their accessport. The tuning would be done by TPC, which is literally a few minutes down the road from me in central MD. Even with the Subaru, I used the OTS tune for a week until I could get an appointment with a respected local tuner for a custom tune on their dyno.

Definitely appreciate the reminder though; I saw your post but lost track of it once I locked in to TPC. I'll give it serious consideration, but I've been considering making TPC my go-to indie anyway.

fast1

I would recommend that any car enthusiast see a Monaco F1 race at least once. It's an unforgetable experience.

MidEngineRules

General commentary from FVD's website...

Once we receive your downloaded software, we modify the ignition timing, optimize the air /fuel ratios, increase the rev limiter and modify the boost mapping on turbo vehicles. Since we sample your original file using the method above, each of our programs is custom-written for each of your vehicle's modifications. That means that we can extract the maximum performance gains over what our competition can offer you. For all Porsche® vehicles from 2000 upwards, we also alter the throttle response which effectively negates the throttle delay found in E-Gas or drive by wire vehicles. The throttle response is improved linearly so that you don't experience sharp increases commonly found with other software tuners who tend to exacerbate the throttle response. For us, the “Devil is in the details”, so we concentrate on laying the power down more smoothly, while providing consistent acceleration without wheel spin. Ultimately, FVD tuned cars are quicker than their overrated counterparts with the added benefit of lower tire expenses.

All of the OEM engine software safety features are left fully intact and are not disabled. So you will benefit from the added performance without sacrificing the reliability that the Porsche® brand is renowned for. Since we sample your original software file, all of the Porsche® dealer software updates are also included, whereas our competitors who flash without sampling the OEM file are typically using a map based on the first year of the vehicle without all of the critical Porsche® updates. In addition, our software engineers have been trained by Bosch and Siemens in Germany, so you receive their factory expertise in writing software code for Porsche®. They have been writing software for Porsche® since 1983, before many of our competitors were born; very few can make that same claim. Most importantly, our software engineers are committed to software tuning for PORSCHE® ONLY, so our sole purpose is to write the most polished Porsche® software available in the industry.

Works for me! I look forward to my Spyder's warranty expiration. I'm not interested in more power, but will happily enjoy a more smooth powerband and quicker throttle response. I have a MV Agusta F4 1000 R and upon break-in purchased the factory race CPU along with factory slip ons, and a factory mid pipe to remove the catalytic converter. In stock form there was a nasty throttle hesitation exactly where you cruise. Any time you rolled on power the motor would stumble exactly at that point. So annoying. The race CPU fixed that completely and yielded 195 hp all total. Porsches have a similar stumble I assume due to the vario cam. If FVD's software smooths that out I'd be happy enough.

MidEngineRules

Here's the only reference to the Spyder's ring time I've seen. 7:47. Reasonable considering the GT4's time of 7:42 on much better rubber (Cup 2s) versus the PZeros. Best time I've seen for a 718 S is also 7:47. I'm sure both are capable of better, especially on more grippy rubber and driven by one of the Ring's ace drivers. I would not be surprised if the 718's time was with PDK, which is worth a handful of seconds. Part of the variables we never get to know. Until the cars are driven by the same driver on the same rubber on the same day, these times are not definitive.

Page 1, para 2 (performance)
http://press.porsche.com/vehicles/20...Spyder_USA.pdf

Archimedes

Porsche press release times are bull****. Publicly verified times are always slower. The fastest real world Spyder time is slower than the 718S. Close enough to be a wash, but in no way does the Spyder stomp on the 718. And on a twisty mountain road, the 718 would probably best our Spyders.

fast1

It all depends upon the driver. The factory Porsche drivers are far better than some car magazine writer.

Marine Blue

Archimedes

Faster than Timo Kluck? Because they've repeatedly rumored times that his laps didn't corroborate.

But the issue is comparability. You can't compare a Porsche claimed, unverified time that you know was set by a pro race driver, in perfect conditions, lapping the track all day and taking the single best time against the public verified time of another car. The best comparison is public time to public time, with a small adjustment if the drivers are known different skill levels.

But again, why would one assume that the Spyder would stomp a 718S? It has no advantage in terms of suspension, brakes or grip, and is down on torque at the bottom end, which is apparently very useful on the uphill sections of the Ring. And the PDK is going to help a lot over 8 minutes on the Ring.

MidEngineRules

I would not assume the Spyder would stomp a 718 S as I'm very familiar with Nurburgring as I lived 90 minutes from it for 5 years and have been there often. The Spyder's advantage is lower weight and a lower CG and higher hp at the top of the range. What hurts the Spyder is the unusually tall gearing Porsche chose, and manual gearbox only. I bought the Spyder for enjoyable road duty not race duty so I'm under no illusion it's an optimal track tool because it isn't. If looking for a more fair fight, the Spyder and 718 S posted identical times at Hockenheim (short loop) which also should favor the 718 versus the longer F1 course (revised, not the old 4 mile loop).

MidEngineRules

<br /><br />So Porsche advertises the 718 GTS as doing 7:40 at the ring. Must be crap then? As for your verified times theory that would be great if cars were also verified as production models and we all now that isn't always true. In fact, it's most often not true. Again, ring times are not definitive by any stretch. So many variables. Most laps don't even show tenths as it's that unimportant. With each new iteration manufacturers are only interested in besting the outgoing model unless the GT2 or something exotic when they're looking for the best overall time. That's a level of effort unmatched by the typical set times. Look at the new Civic R's time. Was not a production car. Full roll cage and who knows what else. That lap was driven for maximum speed, not the typical margin of safety timed lap drivers maintain. Reminded of of the RUF Yellowbird lap where every lap would require a new set of tires. The Civic R lap is on Youtube and you can see the driver approaching corners at full steering lock and full power (wheels spinning) to get the most out of the lap. That's not real world.<br /><br />I'm not surprised the 718 S performs as well as it does. I'm sure that was key to Porsche's strategy especially knowing the motor change would be disastrous to sales if they didn't make it quick. Forced induction is an easy way to make a car quicker. I'll never find it nearly as satisfying as liner power though, especially on the bottom end. I'm not ready for a Mercedes yet, nor auto gearbox.

Archimedes

Porsche times for the pedestrian cars are never verified. Never. They are meaningless if one is trying to compare lap times. All my comments in this thread on this topic were directed and the person who posted that the 'Spyder would stomp on the 718S', which is a joke. The cars would be a dead heat on almost any track and in the canyons. The 718 is at least the equal of the Spyder performance wise. And I own a Spyder, so I'm not a 718 fanboy saying that.

Again, I wouldn't be caught dead in a 718, but I realize that I'd most likely be looking at its taillights on a windy road if the drivers were of equal skill. No way would my peaky, log geared, manual Spyder get the best of a 718S in the canyons.

JakiChan

Given that I've pretty much finalized my spec and have paid a deposit on a 718CS, reading this thread makes me think that there are plenty of folks who think no one should buy a 718. I've fallen in love with the car - the ergonomics, the feel of how it drives. And I know how to filter the reality of what people say on forums, but it does make me second guess my decision. Sorry, but a used 981 isn't gonna cut it, I'd maybe be better off saving my money for some mythical car that doesn't exist yet. I don' t want a 911. I was considering the M2 but I hate the inside of it. Same with the TTRS. And I wonder if that's what some of the "purists" here want to do - FUD the car out of existence? Because that's what would happen. If enough people stop buying the car they won't go and put a 6 back in it. It'll just go away, and they'll make just SUVs and the 911, basically. It just kills me that there will be plenty of folks on here, a Porsche forum, who think I'm an idiot for buying a 718.

Archimedes

Nobody is saying it's a car nobody should buy. If you love it, buy it. That's all that matters. It's a great car, no doubt. Just not to certain people's tastes. But taste is personal.

JakiChan

That's not really what this thread reads like. So much hate.

I find it interesting that dealers have so many on lots, and yet not offering to deal. I'm here in the South Bay, but my car will be paid for in Sacramento. The "not selling" also seemed to come across as "not interesting in selling" - folks looking at Macans were getting way more love at the dealership than I was. But then my local dealer has had a CPO GT4 sitting there for a while.

I probably "fit the profile" as you hinted at earlier. This would be my first Porsche. "New money" or whatever you want to call it. But firstly, I tend to buy new and keep for a LONG time, and second I want ICE and creature comforts I can't get (like CarPlay) on a used 981 without spending a lot of money trying to go aftermarket. But I do wonder if, assuming I get the car and decide to visit the "Boxster Brunch" at Alice's, if I will be shunned for not having a "real Porsche". Not that it would matter that much - I'd still enjoy the roads, but still part of what I thought I'd be buying into is a community and history and right now it really doesn't feel like that.