987.1 engine replacement/overhaul costs. Are they really this absurd?
08-29-2016, 04:55 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
987.1 engine replacement/overhaul costs. Are they really this absurd?
I've always been a DIYer and a project guy. I've recently seen a number of "broken" Caymans and Boxsters for sale.
Examples-
07 C S with TPC stage 3 turbo $13k. Ran meth kit "at full and cooked the engine. Fireballs shooting out the exhaust."
05 Boxster S. $5k. Maintenance revealed metal flakes in oil filter. Diagnosed as IMS bearing. Sold to shop for $3.5k.
05 Boxtser. DMF exploded and seized engine. $6k +$2k labor for repair. Sold to dealer for $4k.
06 Cayman. $7k Seller claims it's not an S though. IMS failure as diagnosed by shop. Selling to said shop for $6k.
I'm trying to find price quotes(nationally) for engines and the prices vary immensely. Used engines with around 100k miles for $8k or low mileage 40k engines for $13-15k. Then some sellers claiming that the shop offered to fix the issue for $7-8 including labor.
Engine costs for even $8k make they vehicles a losing proposition since the total costs are pretty much market value of the car. So either these shops are fleecing customers with a fraudulent diagnosis and cheaply repairing the vehicles or they are getting engines at severely reduce prices in the range of $3-5k. I'm hoping it's the latter and I can find a replacement engine closer to the $5k mark and have myself another p project car.
Unfortunately I'm somewhat inclined to believe it's the former as one of mentioned vehicles was offered for sale less than a week later with no mention of engine replacement or any major work completed.
Examples-
07 C S with TPC stage 3 turbo $13k. Ran meth kit "at full and cooked the engine. Fireballs shooting out the exhaust."
05 Boxster S. $5k. Maintenance revealed metal flakes in oil filter. Diagnosed as IMS bearing. Sold to shop for $3.5k.
05 Boxtser. DMF exploded and seized engine. $6k +$2k labor for repair. Sold to dealer for $4k.
06 Cayman. $7k Seller claims it's not an S though. IMS failure as diagnosed by shop. Selling to said shop for $6k.
I'm trying to find price quotes(nationally) for engines and the prices vary immensely. Used engines with around 100k miles for $8k or low mileage 40k engines for $13-15k. Then some sellers claiming that the shop offered to fix the issue for $7-8 including labor.
Engine costs for even $8k make they vehicles a losing proposition since the total costs are pretty much market value of the car. So either these shops are fleecing customers with a fraudulent diagnosis and cheaply repairing the vehicles or they are getting engines at severely reduce prices in the range of $3-5k. I'm hoping it's the latter and I can find a replacement engine closer to the $5k mark and have myself another p project car.
Unfortunately I'm somewhat inclined to believe it's the former as one of mentioned vehicles was offered for sale less than a week later with no mention of engine replacement or any major work completed.
09-12-2016, 01:25 AM
#3
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the trouble with the Gen I Cayman and Boxster is that once the engine goes it is getting harder to find replacement engines. And the design is prone to failure. Common problem with oiling.
Most replacements from salvage yards are not fresh by any means. So it is a roll of the dice as they can easily fail too.
The cost to fix outweighs the market price of these cars.
basically they become scrap.
Shops that buy them as rollers keep them for parts to keep other customer cars going.
Or, if they happen to find a crashed car they can salvage the motor, then they can stick it in the good roller project.
The DFI Gen II Cayman and boxster from 2009+ are far more reliable and good replacement engines are available.
This is where money is better spent as a DIY in the cayman/boxster world.
Most replacements from salvage yards are not fresh by any means. So it is a roll of the dice as they can easily fail too.
The cost to fix outweighs the market price of these cars.
basically they become scrap.
Shops that buy them as rollers keep them for parts to keep other customer cars going.
Or, if they happen to find a crashed car they can salvage the motor, then they can stick it in the good roller project.
The DFI Gen II Cayman and boxster from 2009+ are far more reliable and good replacement engines are available.
This is where money is better spent as a DIY in the cayman/boxster world.
09-12-2016, 12:56 PM
#5
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It has been done, but it is very labour intensive.
In the end, it is not worth doing as the cost far exceeds the rewards.
The Gen I electronics do not work with Gen II.
The Cost effective route is to stick with Gen II and use DFI motors.
In the end, it is not worth doing as the cost far exceeds the rewards.
The Gen I electronics do not work with Gen II.
The Cost effective route is to stick with Gen II and use DFI motors.
09-13-2016, 10:14 PM
#6
Instructor
Thread Starter
the trouble with the Gen I Cayman and Boxster is that once the engine goes it is getting harder to find replacement engines. And the design is prone to failure. Common problem with oiling.
Most replacements from salvage yards are not fresh by any means. So it is a roll of the dice as they can easily fail too.
The cost to fix outweighs the market price of these cars.
basically they become scrap.
Shops that buy them as rollers keep them for parts to keep other customer cars going.
Or, if they happen to find a crashed car they can salvage the motor, then they can stick it in the good roller project.
The DFI Gen II Cayman and boxster from 2009+ are far more reliable and good replacement engines are available.
This is where money is better spent as a DIY in the cayman/boxster world.
Most replacements from salvage yards are not fresh by any means. So it is a roll of the dice as they can easily fail too.
The cost to fix outweighs the market price of these cars.
basically they become scrap.
Shops that buy them as rollers keep them for parts to keep other customer cars going.
Or, if they happen to find a crashed car they can salvage the motor, then they can stick it in the good roller project.
The DFI Gen II Cayman and boxster from 2009+ are far more reliable and good replacement engines are available.
This is where money is better spent as a DIY in the cayman/boxster world.
So these might become collectibles after all as many will be headed to the scrap pile since the engines are plagued with a number of faults and there's no sensible engine replacement alternatives.
09-14-2016, 12:20 AM
#7
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These certainly do seem like throw away cars. I've since come across 3 more that have some sort of engine failure. The prices are tempting but the cheapest motor I've found is $8k (with 101k miles)and they charge $2k if you don't provide a rebuildable core. If I had a rebuildable core then I'd forego the used engine and obviously rebuild it. But I'm also getting quotes of $12k to rebuild it to factory specs.
So these might become collectibles after all as many will be headed to the scrap pile since the engines are plagued with a number of faults and there's no sensible engine replacement alternatives.
So these might become collectibles after all as many will be headed to the scrap pile since the engines are plagued with a number of faults and there's no sensible engine replacement alternatives.
Replacement engine are scarce and anything you do find can easily fail after install. That means money spent on labour and engine are down the toilet on a car that has no real market value.
The only people that will be collecting them will be auto recyclers.
Look for 2009+ 2.9L and 3.4L Generation II caymans/boxster..
The are reliable and replacement engines are reasonable.
You can also stuff the 3.8L 911 in them. Porsche gives good money for the cores if you go for new crate engine.
BGB has everything you need for the 3.8L swap.
Trending Topics
03-24-2019, 01:47 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
resurrecting an old thread.
my wife has an 06 cayman s and it's driving fine but it is getting high on the miles. the exterior and interior are in very good condition and she loves the car.
if the engine were to fail one day i could easily see the desire for putting in an gen 2 engine and keeping the 06, as it is family now.
i wonder what the forum thinks it would cost to do that?
on ebay right now there are:
gen 2 - 73k miles - 7.5k
gen 2 - 44k miles - 9k
gen 2 - 39k miles - 12.5k
etc.
thanks in advance.
my wife has an 06 cayman s and it's driving fine but it is getting high on the miles. the exterior and interior are in very good condition and she loves the car.
if the engine were to fail one day i could easily see the desire for putting in an gen 2 engine and keeping the 06, as it is family now.
i wonder what the forum thinks it would cost to do that?
on ebay right now there are:
gen 2 - 73k miles - 7.5k
gen 2 - 44k miles - 9k
gen 2 - 39k miles - 12.5k
etc.
thanks in advance.
03-24-2019, 02:07 PM
#9
exactly.
Replacement engine are scarce and anything you do find can easily fail after install. That means money spent on labour and engine are down the toilet on a car that has no real market value.
The only people that will be collecting them will be auto recyclers.
Look for 2009+ 2.9L and 3.4L Generation II caymans/boxster..
The are reliable and replacement engines are reasonable.
You can also stuff the 3.8L 911 in them. Porsche gives good money for the cores if you go for new crate engine.
BGB has everything you need for the 3.8L swap.
Replacement engine are scarce and anything you do find can easily fail after install. That means money spent on labour and engine are down the toilet on a car that has no real market value.
The only people that will be collecting them will be auto recyclers.
Look for 2009+ 2.9L and 3.4L Generation II caymans/boxster..
The are reliable and replacement engines are reasonable.
You can also stuff the 3.8L 911 in them. Porsche gives good money for the cores if you go for new crate engine.
BGB has everything you need for the 3.8L swap.
03-24-2019, 07:23 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
If so, and if there is anything to the FUD about carbonization with the early DFI implementations, the 2.9L port injected engines may be the most reliable of all. Interesting topic.
03-24-2019, 07:45 PM
#11
The port-injected 2.9Ls were still 9A1s, weren't they? Meaning the oiling issues were addressed and the IMS was removed from the design?
If so, and if there is anything to the FUD about carbonization with the early DFI implementations, the 2.9L port injected engines may be the most reliable of all. Interesting topic.
If so, and if there is anything to the FUD about carbonization with the early DFI implementations, the 2.9L port injected engines may be the most reliable of all. Interesting topic.
03-25-2019, 05:29 PM
#12
Banned
What are the current market prices on used 987.1 S engines?
Just bought a 05 Boxster S with 31k miles (still in winter storage) and trying to decide if I should do the IMS fix or roll the dice and just drive it. My first Porsche was 06 Boxster S that I bought new and enjoyed bone stock for 6 years, 40k miles, and 70+ track days with zero problems. I've heard it said more than once that regular visits to the rev limiter help lubricate the IMS bearings and prevent IMS failure. Not sure if true or a myth but my first Boxster seems to confirm it.
Just bought a 05 Boxster S with 31k miles (still in winter storage) and trying to decide if I should do the IMS fix or roll the dice and just drive it. My first Porsche was 06 Boxster S that I bought new and enjoyed bone stock for 6 years, 40k miles, and 70+ track days with zero problems. I've heard it said more than once that regular visits to the rev limiter help lubricate the IMS bearings and prevent IMS failure. Not sure if true or a myth but my first Boxster seems to confirm it.
Last edited by hf1; 03-25-2019 at 05:45 PM.
03-25-2019, 07:14 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
on ebay right now there are:
gen 2 - 73k miles - 7.5k
gen 2 - 44k miles - 9k
gen 2 - 39k miles - 12.5k
looking for someone to give a general idea of cost/process involved to put a gen2 in a gen1 car.
gen 2 - 73k miles - 7.5k
gen 2 - 44k miles - 9k
gen 2 - 39k miles - 12.5k
looking for someone to give a general idea of cost/process involved to put a gen2 in a gen1 car.
03-26-2019, 02:39 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Having done this conversion before, even if you get a good deal on the engine, it's not worth it. If you are sold on wanting a 9A1 engine, sell the car and get a 2009-2012 model. You'll be far ahead at the end of the day.
03-26-2019, 02:59 PM
#15
Banned
Sounds about right. What prices are you seeing on low-ish mile (<60k) 987.1 S engines out there (both 3.2 and 3.4L)? Would a 07-08 3.4 S engine be a plug&play fit into a 05-06 3.2 S Boxster?
