Schmidts Cat

So, I know this has been gone over SO many times, but...
After extensive mods to my '09 CS, and a season of track events on PSS tires, it's time to move to a set of track tires. Seems hard to find the right ones. I don't want to go to Hoosiers yet, as I still want to be able to drive to the track for now. All I need is a "Move up", not interested in spending $500/day on rubber. My extra set of wheels I'll be getting can be 18s or 19s.

Options so far (Please feel free to offer up others)

Toyo R888 $
Nitto NT01 $
Pirelli Trofeo R $$$

Dr.Bill

18"
Nitto NT01

There is no substitute.

Schmidts Cat

Thanks, what sizes are you running? How many track days do you get.. about? 5?

Bull_D

275/40-18, 245/40-18. i got 50 sessions on mine this summer, divide that by how many sessions you usually do in a day and you have your answer.

Schmidts Cat

Awesome, thanks. At 4-5 sessions per day, and some highway driving, that might be as many 9-10 track days. Cool. Will they heat-cycle out after 35ish?

orthojoe

Ian, NT01. NT01. NT01.
You won't regret. You will love it. Guaranteed.
I've never heard of a single person who was disappointed or didn't love NT01
Barely needs to warm up to, never heat cycles out, good feedback and progressive breakaway
Agree with Bill: there is no substitute.

You just need 18" wheels. I'm running 275-40-18 in the rear and 245-40-18 in the front.

Schmidts Cat

Nuf said! Going to order a set of 18s and NTO1s in that size. Where do you buy yours? Does big O sell them? I would like to give Guy in Benicia the biz.

the_vetman

Schmidt, for your use and parameters I'd say NT-01s are probably the best bet. R888s wear longer but they heat cycle out and some/many hate them.

I've been running NT-01s and like them. However, TBH I have to say that they're not as sticky as I thought they were going to be. Maybe I was expecting too much, who knows. But they weren't a dramatic difference from some of the stickiest street tires.

FWIW, I'm not the only one who feels this way. Others including a BMW racer said he's had the same experience - NT-01s are good but not that significant of an improvement over the best street tires. What I've been noticing is that I'm overdriving the tires and exceeding the maximum grip in many situations. I'm sure I could be a better, smoother driver but after having people tell me to go to Hoosiers and conversing with a pro coach that "it's all about the tires", I'm thinking about going stickier with my next set. Hankook Z214s and BF Goodrich R1s are on the list. R1s supposedly last longer because Z214s drop off suddenly after so many heat cycles. Hoosiers are great but $$$ and don't last long at all.

BTW, I'm not advocating that people go to R compounds and Hoosier R6s relatively early in their DE careers. Sticky tires can hide many driver errors and prevent one from becoming a better driver. Personally, I did 43 DE days on street tires before going R compounds. 61 days or so now.

This has been my experience. Naturally, YMMV.

RamVA

I'm not a fan of NT01s. They're not nearly as sticky as R1s or Cups, and they are also very noisy.

Schmidts Cat

Thanks veteman, everything sounds right to me. I did the last 2 years on street tires for exactly that reason. I also did the first year on almost stock suspension (I did pads, fluid, seat & harnesses etc first) because I wanted to feel what the car would do, and what I was doing. Moving up "one notch" tire wise is just perfect. Next will be rotors, perhaps calipers too? BTW, do 18s inhibit brake cooling at all vs 19s?

orthojoe

Big O does sell them, but I've been sourcing from discounttire direct lately. Good deals.

Vet, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I know Ben thinks the NT01 were a nice upgrade from MPSS when he used them. And although it's not exactly apples to apples, the MPSS I'm running on my BRZ do not grip nearly as well as the NT01 on my spyder. In terms of objective numbers I can give you this info I have on max G before the car starts to break away (assuming a flat turn):

1) OEM michelin primacy HP tires on BRZ:1.0 G
2) michelin pilot super sport tires on BRZ: 1.0G (yes, hard to believe grip is the same as prius tires, but many guys on the BRZ track forums confirm that actual grip of prius tires isn't bad. I found that switching to MPSS made the car more predictable on breakaway, though)
3) OEM Michelin pilot sport PS2 on spyder: 1.1G
4) Nitto NT01 tires on spyder: 1.2G
5) Hankook z214 tires on spyder: 1.3G


Would agree not as sticky as R1s, but I do think they are just as good if not better than cups. I agree they are noisy, but who cares?

I'm running 18s, but with PCCB calipers so it's not a fair comparo with your S calipers. I've never had an issue with brakes overheating using my PCCB sized rotors and calipers. Not even close. I can tell you Ben runs 18s with his S sized calipers, but I don't believe he ran into brake cooling issues until he stepped up to the hankook Z214s.

Schmidts Cat

Great info joe, thanks! Just confirms my plan.

the_vetman

Perfectly OK to disagree, Joe. I was just sharing my subjective opinion and experience anyway. Different people may have different experiences and opinions. As always, great work on the data!

stevecolletti

Joe,

Do you have acceleration and braking 'numbers' for the Prius tires versus the others (any/all)?
That was the primary thing I noticed in my BRZ drive - unintended wheelspin pulling away from almost every stop with the stock setup.

My dislike of the MPSSs aside...
It'd be interesting to see the G-curve through a decent length corner. Back when I was using a G-Analyst tool, peak Gs meant very little compared to how long those peaks could be maintained. Do your numbers (I'm assuming from the SOLO DL) show values for every tenth of a second?
Sorry, it's still not out of the box.... where's that embarrassed emoticon?

Steve

mrd_spy

I run dunlop race maxx on oem Spyder 19" rims.