What to look for in a used Cayman?
10-19-2013, 12:11 PM
#1
What to look for in a used Cayman?
I'm considering a 2007 Cayman S. What are the items that I should be concerned about and look for in a PPI? Any specific codes to look at? What should I request from a dealership to get the most comprehensive look at its condition?
10-19-2013, 01:08 PM
#2
Race Director
First, from the dealer, if it has serviced the car what servicing and when the servicing was done is one question. Or maybe two questions.
Regardless of the number of questions, you want service (and repair) history. No need to try to learn the previous owner's name or anything else, for prying questions can shut the dealer up and cut off any chance of you getting the info that is really of value to you.
Next a full read out/print out of the car's DME and its over rev counters, event time and total engine run time.
Here's a copy of a post I recently submitted on the Boxster forum. Much if not all of it applies to your Cayman question.
The car is just a used car. You should give it a thorough used car check out.
What follows is not a full used car check out treatment but hits the high spots.
For various reasons a good used car check out starts with you visiting the car dead cold and making sure the A/C is off then starting the engine. Before you crank it be sure all warning lights -- including the CEL! -- come on and go off as the engine cranks/fires and runs.
Let the engine idle normally but *listen* to it. Get out and walk around the car looking at body panel finish and fits, etc. But listen to the engine.
Up to you if you want to have the engine exposed from the top.
Let the engine idle a while until it is warm, call it around 10 minutes. Let the temp gage be your guide.
Then have the seller take you on a test ride. As a passenger you focus on how the car sounds, feels, rides, shifts, brakes, turns, etc. Leave your cell phone off. Keep the chit chat to a minimum. If the seller feels the need to fill the silence you can let him talk if you think there's a chance he might let slip something negative about the car.
The route should cover 15 miles and give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it (within reason, of course).
Once up to temp the car wants to be hard accelerated from near idle in say 1st or 2nd gear to near redline then upshifted and this hard acceleration continued as long as it can be.
The engine should pull strong and smooth through its entire RPM range. A hard brake wants the car slowing with no drama, darting, one tire locking up, etc.
Once the hard run is over the engine should settle down into a smooth idle with no signs of issues from the hard use.
Back at the starting point you take the car out and follow the same route, drive the car the same way.
If after your 15 mile test drive you like the car then give it a thorough used car check out. Test everything from A/C to TPMS. From brake lights to wipers.
Check everything. For instance if you find the radiator ducts full of trash you can expect to have to pay maybe an hour's labor to have the bumper cover removed and this trash thoroughly cleaned out. Now once cleaned a periodic cleaning with a leaf blower or shop air can keep the trash from building up.
But what you may find when you have the bumper cover off is the radiator (or condensers) are corroded and if not leaking have much shortened service lives. So you have to take this into account in your offer.
You remove the battery cover and the panels on either side of the car (and expose the ones under the top/clam shell) and if you find a build up of trash in the water drains you might have to worry about has the water ever backed up into the cabin. So be on your lookout for any electrical gremlins. Any at all could mean a security module replacement.
At the other end of the car, so to speak, if you find a brake rotor with a bigger lip than its mate on the other side, a piston may be dragging and there could be brake work in the car's future.
If after all of the above you still like the car, and believe you can buy it for an price both you and the seller can accept, arrange to have the car PPI'd. Among other things this should include reading the DME and its engine run time/over rev counters to use in sanity checking the car's mileage and verifying there are no scary over rev numbers.
The PPI should also check for any signs of fluid leakage *anywhere*. Now you may have read about RMS and this is nothing to be sneered at, but you can't or shouldn't focus solely on this area and ignore other areas. Torn CV boots can be just as expensive to put right as an RMS. A leak at the power steering rack can cost some serious money to address. A leaking water pump, radiators, in short a leak anywhere can be a not so nice hit on your wallet.
'course, the PPI also checks for signs of body/paint work, signs of accident damage, lousy repair (or servicing) from under the car, etc.
Now if you like the car after all of the above, do not delay. You wait a week and in the meantime some other buyer has visited the car and overreved the heck out of the engine during his "test drive".
Good luck.
Last but not least remember there is always another car.
Regardless of the number of questions, you want service (and repair) history. No need to try to learn the previous owner's name or anything else, for prying questions can shut the dealer up and cut off any chance of you getting the info that is really of value to you.
Next a full read out/print out of the car's DME and its over rev counters, event time and total engine run time.
Here's a copy of a post I recently submitted on the Boxster forum. Much if not all of it applies to your Cayman question.
The car is just a used car. You should give it a thorough used car check out.
What follows is not a full used car check out treatment but hits the high spots.
For various reasons a good used car check out starts with you visiting the car dead cold and making sure the A/C is off then starting the engine. Before you crank it be sure all warning lights -- including the CEL! -- come on and go off as the engine cranks/fires and runs.
Let the engine idle normally but *listen* to it. Get out and walk around the car looking at body panel finish and fits, etc. But listen to the engine.
Up to you if you want to have the engine exposed from the top.
Let the engine idle a while until it is warm, call it around 10 minutes. Let the temp gage be your guide.
Then have the seller take you on a test ride. As a passenger you focus on how the car sounds, feels, rides, shifts, brakes, turns, etc. Leave your cell phone off. Keep the chit chat to a minimum. If the seller feels the need to fill the silence you can let him talk if you think there's a chance he might let slip something negative about the car.
The route should cover 15 miles and give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it (within reason, of course).
Once up to temp the car wants to be hard accelerated from near idle in say 1st or 2nd gear to near redline then upshifted and this hard acceleration continued as long as it can be.
The engine should pull strong and smooth through its entire RPM range. A hard brake wants the car slowing with no drama, darting, one tire locking up, etc.
Once the hard run is over the engine should settle down into a smooth idle with no signs of issues from the hard use.
Back at the starting point you take the car out and follow the same route, drive the car the same way.
If after your 15 mile test drive you like the car then give it a thorough used car check out. Test everything from A/C to TPMS. From brake lights to wipers.
Check everything. For instance if you find the radiator ducts full of trash you can expect to have to pay maybe an hour's labor to have the bumper cover removed and this trash thoroughly cleaned out. Now once cleaned a periodic cleaning with a leaf blower or shop air can keep the trash from building up.
But what you may find when you have the bumper cover off is the radiator (or condensers) are corroded and if not leaking have much shortened service lives. So you have to take this into account in your offer.
You remove the battery cover and the panels on either side of the car (and expose the ones under the top/clam shell) and if you find a build up of trash in the water drains you might have to worry about has the water ever backed up into the cabin. So be on your lookout for any electrical gremlins. Any at all could mean a security module replacement.
At the other end of the car, so to speak, if you find a brake rotor with a bigger lip than its mate on the other side, a piston may be dragging and there could be brake work in the car's future.
If after all of the above you still like the car, and believe you can buy it for an price both you and the seller can accept, arrange to have the car PPI'd. Among other things this should include reading the DME and its engine run time/over rev counters to use in sanity checking the car's mileage and verifying there are no scary over rev numbers.
The PPI should also check for any signs of fluid leakage *anywhere*. Now you may have read about RMS and this is nothing to be sneered at, but you can't or shouldn't focus solely on this area and ignore other areas. Torn CV boots can be just as expensive to put right as an RMS. A leak at the power steering rack can cost some serious money to address. A leaking water pump, radiators, in short a leak anywhere can be a not so nice hit on your wallet.
'course, the PPI also checks for signs of body/paint work, signs of accident damage, lousy repair (or servicing) from under the car, etc.
Now if you like the car after all of the above, do not delay. You wait a week and in the meantime some other buyer has visited the car and overreved the heck out of the engine during his "test drive".
Good luck.
Last but not least remember there is always another car.
10-19-2013, 06:02 PM
#3
If you can swing a CPO car, do it. I just pulled mine out of the dealer again for the 4th time. No engine issues, but a lot of little random things. Last weekend, my inner door handle just decided to snap a spring on the inside of the door. I've had my radio and hvac units replaced. Window regulator, a/c leak, etc. I still like the car, but I'm definitely glad I got the warranty. Lots of repairs and I haven't even had the car for a year.
10-19-2013, 10:15 PM
#4
Thanks, guys - good info. This car is at a P-car dealer, so it will be a CPO. It's got a few serious dings that they say will be repaired pre-sale, and it has clear bra. Otherwise good shape, ~30K miles, interior looks perfect.
I'm a bit concerned, though, about the history of the car. I asked if they would provide the DME code print-out, and they acted as if it was a strange request, and unnecessary for a CPO car. Red flag, or just sales guys being sales guys?
Bottom line - it's not a perfect match for what I want to begin with, so I have no problem with walking away...but it's pretty darned close, so I want to give it a fair chance.
I'm a bit concerned, though, about the history of the car. I asked if they would provide the DME code print-out, and they acted as if it was a strange request, and unnecessary for a CPO car. Red flag, or just sales guys being sales guys?
Bottom line - it's not a perfect match for what I want to begin with, so I have no problem with walking away...but it's pretty darned close, so I want to give it a fair chance.
10-20-2013, 02:34 AM
#5
Race Director
Thanks, guys - good info. This car is at a P-car dealer, so it will be a CPO. It's got a few serious dings that they say will be repaired pre-sale, and it has clear bra. Otherwise good shape, ~30K miles, interior looks perfect.
I'm a bit concerned, though, about the history of the car. I asked if they would provide the DME code print-out, and they acted as if it was a strange request, and unnecessary for a CPO car. Red flag, or just sales guys being sales guys?
Bottom line - it's not a perfect match for what I want to begin with, so I have no problem with walking away...but it's pretty darned close, so I want to give it a fair chance.
I'm a bit concerned, though, about the history of the car. I asked if they would provide the DME code print-out, and they acted as if it was a strange request, and unnecessary for a CPO car. Red flag, or just sales guys being sales guys?
Bottom line - it's not a perfect match for what I want to begin with, so I have no problem with walking away...but it's pretty darned close, so I want to give it a fair chance.
What you want I think is the DME over rev counters with the time stamps of the last event for each non-zero counter and the total engine run time.
This should have been done already. When I bought a CPO Turbo the DME printout was included in some of the paper work I got with the car.
However, you want to be sure you get a copy *before* you commit to the car.