Buying advice: 987S, 997S Cab, M Roadster
05-11-2006, 06:12 PM
#1
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Buying advice: 987S, 997S Cab, M Roadster
Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Background: I've always loved the 911's and currently own an 06 M3. I'm keeping the M3. Like many I never cared for Porsche's decision to make the Boxster and I'm well aware of the attending stereotypes people have for Boxster owners. So, I thought I had it narrowed down to buying a 997 S cab as my next car.
But then I drove one. I was very disappointed. Although I liked the steering feedback and styling of the car, it was a let down in terms of acceleration and engine sound. After hearing it at idle for a few minutes I was amazed at how much it reminded me of the VW Beetles. I always loved the look of the 911, but while having to listen to the engine at idle I felt repulsion inside. What is happening to me?
I walked away from the 997S and drove away in my M3 noticing the differences and I concluded that it just isn't worth $40k more for the 997. I'm sure it's a faster car - it does have another 20hp and weighs a little less, but the feel of it just doesn't WOW me like I thought it would.
Then I drove the new M Z4 Roadster. Same engine as my M3, weighs less, competition package brakes and more. I like the styling so please leave that out as a factor (to each his own). Again, M Roadster vs. 997 S cab - why is there $40k difference between the two? It's not that much more fun to drive.
So, why not go for the new 987S in a few months that will have the upgraded engine? It will have almost as much hp as the M Roadster but will probably be better in the twisties. Any thoughts? I didn't like the current 987 because it felt slow to me in a straight line, very slow. I think the 350Z cab I drove was faster. In short, the improvement in handling of the current 987 doesn't make up for the lack of straight line performance when I compare those same qualities in the M Roadster.
Also, for those who always had a snobbish attitude in favor of 911's and downplaying the Boxster, was it hard to shrug off when you bought your Boxster? Do you get over it?
Background: I've always loved the 911's and currently own an 06 M3. I'm keeping the M3. Like many I never cared for Porsche's decision to make the Boxster and I'm well aware of the attending stereotypes people have for Boxster owners. So, I thought I had it narrowed down to buying a 997 S cab as my next car.
But then I drove one. I was very disappointed. Although I liked the steering feedback and styling of the car, it was a let down in terms of acceleration and engine sound. After hearing it at idle for a few minutes I was amazed at how much it reminded me of the VW Beetles. I always loved the look of the 911, but while having to listen to the engine at idle I felt repulsion inside. What is happening to me?
I walked away from the 997S and drove away in my M3 noticing the differences and I concluded that it just isn't worth $40k more for the 997. I'm sure it's a faster car - it does have another 20hp and weighs a little less, but the feel of it just doesn't WOW me like I thought it would.
Then I drove the new M Z4 Roadster. Same engine as my M3, weighs less, competition package brakes and more. I like the styling so please leave that out as a factor (to each his own). Again, M Roadster vs. 997 S cab - why is there $40k difference between the two? It's not that much more fun to drive.
So, why not go for the new 987S in a few months that will have the upgraded engine? It will have almost as much hp as the M Roadster but will probably be better in the twisties. Any thoughts? I didn't like the current 987 because it felt slow to me in a straight line, very slow. I think the 350Z cab I drove was faster. In short, the improvement in handling of the current 987 doesn't make up for the lack of straight line performance when I compare those same qualities in the M Roadster.
Also, for those who always had a snobbish attitude in favor of 911's and downplaying the Boxster, was it hard to shrug off when you bought your Boxster? Do you get over it?
05-11-2006, 09:41 PM
#2
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I am a former 993-S owner and had no problem buying a boxster S this year based on several back to back test drives of 987 and 997s cars. In my mind, it is a purer sports car experience than the 997, and even more so than the 997 Cab.
Having owned M3s and Mz3s, I would be intrigued by the Mz4, but 1. I don't care for the styling and 2. it's still not as tactile and agile...as tied to the driver as the Porsche. Great car, just not the best drivers experience you can have. The 987S is quick, .3 secs 0 to 60 means little on the street (where I mostly drive) and on tighter tracks (where I sometimes drive).
In either case, if it's a pure sports car you want (it's unclear) the 997 Cab is not the best choice and certainly not worth the $40K over a Boxster S. (It is one hell of a sports GT though - feels more substantial and luxurious, just not as tactile and tossable).
All depends on what you weigh most heavily in your selection criteria. If fun to drive is your priority, and cost is a factor, I don't see why you would choose the 911 either.
Now it sounds like you have to get over some stigma attached to the Boxster to give it a fair shake. Know any other mid engine light weight cars with its fit and finish, reliability, cachet, style and ultimate performance?
Read the Road and Track sports car shootout. IIRC, 5 of 8 testers chose the 987s as their first choice. There's also a lot of objective data to show just how good the car is - made my decision that much more comfortable.
Having owned M3s and Mz3s, I would be intrigued by the Mz4, but 1. I don't care for the styling and 2. it's still not as tactile and agile...as tied to the driver as the Porsche. Great car, just not the best drivers experience you can have. The 987S is quick, .3 secs 0 to 60 means little on the street (where I mostly drive) and on tighter tracks (where I sometimes drive).
In either case, if it's a pure sports car you want (it's unclear) the 997 Cab is not the best choice and certainly not worth the $40K over a Boxster S. (It is one hell of a sports GT though - feels more substantial and luxurious, just not as tactile and tossable).
All depends on what you weigh most heavily in your selection criteria. If fun to drive is your priority, and cost is a factor, I don't see why you would choose the 911 either.
Now it sounds like you have to get over some stigma attached to the Boxster to give it a fair shake. Know any other mid engine light weight cars with its fit and finish, reliability, cachet, style and ultimate performance?
Read the Road and Track sports car shootout. IIRC, 5 of 8 testers chose the 987s as their first choice. There's also a lot of objective data to show just how good the car is - made my decision that much more comfortable.
Last edited by Chris C.; 05-12-2006 at 10:02 AM.
05-11-2006, 11:08 PM
#3
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Would you wait for the extra 30 hp or so in the MY 07 later this summer? I'm sure it will be at MSRP when nice discounts can be had on the 06's.
05-12-2006, 12:14 AM
#4
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i have had several bmw including mz3c, e36m3 and driven e46m3 extensively (more than 10k miles)
e39m5, m6, m roadster. the honest truth is as far as driving experience is concern, bmw is not even close to any porsches. some M has more power than comparable porsches, but just go drive them both. every time i go test drive a bmw vs a porsche, i come home with a new porsche (i am NOT kidding).
every M car needs better brakes, no so on porsche.
just about all the M cars are sprung too softly compared to possches.
it's useless for me to say all these, if you go test drive them back to back, you will see.
however, none of the porsches will be as useful as bmw's on a daily basis. and porsche do cost more to maintain.
e39m5, m6, m roadster. the honest truth is as far as driving experience is concern, bmw is not even close to any porsches. some M has more power than comparable porsches, but just go drive them both. every time i go test drive a bmw vs a porsche, i come home with a new porsche (i am NOT kidding).
every M car needs better brakes, no so on porsche.
just about all the M cars are sprung too softly compared to possches.
it's useless for me to say all these, if you go test drive them back to back, you will see.
however, none of the porsches will be as useful as bmw's on a daily basis. and porsche do cost more to maintain.
05-12-2006, 08:56 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by yemenmocha
Would you wait for the extra 30 hp or so in the MY 07 later this summer? I'm sure it will be at MSRP when nice discounts can be had on the 06's.
i gurantee the 2007 boxster s will not have 30 more hp than the 06 - no chance
porsche is notorious for baby steps..i think you will be lucky if they up it 5
05-12-2006, 09:58 AM
#6
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Again, depends on your primary use and criteria. For a fun mostly street ride, no brainer decision.
You can likely drive 6K off of a 2006 987-S now, found on a dealer lot, particularly if it's heavily optioned. Even a 5-10% increase in HP will be barely noticeable for street use, so that's your call. IF they do increase it, I would expect to see 295 hp - they have to protect the Cayman's price premium. Not going to make a practical difference - on the order of .1 secs o to 60.
If you want the straight line power, your M car's the winner. However, I sold my 2002 M3 due to it's numbness in performance situations, but also due to bearing concerns. I am not convinced BMW has that engine sorted for the long haul.
I agree with Mooty on all points but one - Modern Pcars are really no more expensive to maintain than Mcars. They require minimum service (oil) during the period where BMWs are in free maintenance, and once out BMWs are just as expensive to keep up
BTW, as far as the current 987S feeling slow, that's a function of low end torque. The solution - you have to REV it more than the M motors to keep it over 4K. Unlike (IMO) prior generations, Porsche has finally given the car it's own, complete sports car identity and the performance to match! Most people love the car.
IME Most 911 owners who look down on it 1. Have never driven a 987S and 2. Do so because it only costs 65K and not 80-90K...somehow the price means it's inherently less car, as opposed to recognizing the very different markets and owners the cars now appeal to. If I had kids and needed the rear seating/storage, I'd see the 911 Cab in a whole new light with more inherent value
You can likely drive 6K off of a 2006 987-S now, found on a dealer lot, particularly if it's heavily optioned. Even a 5-10% increase in HP will be barely noticeable for street use, so that's your call. IF they do increase it, I would expect to see 295 hp - they have to protect the Cayman's price premium. Not going to make a practical difference - on the order of .1 secs o to 60.
If you want the straight line power, your M car's the winner. However, I sold my 2002 M3 due to it's numbness in performance situations, but also due to bearing concerns. I am not convinced BMW has that engine sorted for the long haul.
I agree with Mooty on all points but one - Modern Pcars are really no more expensive to maintain than Mcars. They require minimum service (oil) during the period where BMWs are in free maintenance, and once out BMWs are just as expensive to keep up
BTW, as far as the current 987S feeling slow, that's a function of low end torque. The solution - you have to REV it more than the M motors to keep it over 4K. Unlike (IMO) prior generations, Porsche has finally given the car it's own, complete sports car identity and the performance to match! Most people love the car.
IME Most 911 owners who look down on it 1. Have never driven a 987S and 2. Do so because it only costs 65K and not 80-90K...somehow the price means it's inherently less car, as opposed to recognizing the very different markets and owners the cars now appeal to. If I had kids and needed the rear seating/storage, I'd see the 911 Cab in a whole new light with more inherent value
Last edited by Chris C.; 05-12-2006 at 10:16 AM.
05-12-2006, 12:27 PM
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I dont know of any 30 hp increase coming for the Boxster...if that's true it would be news to me, and very surprising. I agree with Chris that it wouldnt make any sense for Porsche to leapfrog the Cayman. Don't get me wrong...I'd love to have an extra 30 or even 100 hp in this car, but I'd be surprised if Porsche did it.
It's interesting that you found the 997S and 987S to be slow in comparison to the M3, but it probably has more to do with the engines being new. Porsches like BMWs have very tight engines when new. My best example is that when I picked up my M3 and traded in my E36 328is, I was suprised when I drove off the lot that I couldnt tell a difference in the two in acceleration. It changed though...the engine loosened up over the first 9000 miles. It almost felt that every time I drove it, it was getting faster. Same thing with the Porsches. My 987S now with 1500 or so miles on the odo feels much faster than when it was new.
I'll also point out that the 987S feels just as fast in a straight line as my M3, if not faster. My wife is convinced the Porsche is faster, but a lot of this has to do with how much better the handling is. When I drive them back to back, the acceleration feels identical, and surprisingly the Porsche has better low end torque. When I drive off in the M3 it always seems to lag in the lower rpms in comparison.
If the 997S didnt feel any faster than the M3 (it is) and the 987S didnt feel any faster than a 350Z (it is), then either your butt-dyno is out of tune or the Porsche engines were very green. Probably the latter. Try driving a broken-in 997 or 987 and see if you can tell a difference.
As far as the M roadster, it's hard for me to say since I havent driven it. I love the S54 engine, and I'm sure it's fun in the lighter Z4 body. I'm a little spoiled now with the mid-engine handling though, so I'm not tempted. And I wont mention the (awful) styling of the Z4. I'm a huge BMW fan, but there's nothing they make now that's on my radar for my next car. I'm hopeful they'll come through on the E90/2 M3, but if not I'm looking GT3 or 997TT.
And last, I wouldnt worry about the snobbish attitudes. By far, most people have no idea that this is anything other than a Porsche...they really cant tell a difference. Even a lot of Porsche "fanatics" don't know until they see the rear. I have been asked several times how I like my Carrera, and people stare at the car all the time. From the front, it looks all Porsche, and I would even argue that the front end of the 987 is better looking (and more like the Carerra GT) than the 997. The large engine overhang on the cab looks a little awkward to me...it's better on the Boxster because of the mid-engine layout.
Either way, you cant go wrong. Buy what you like!
It's interesting that you found the 997S and 987S to be slow in comparison to the M3, but it probably has more to do with the engines being new. Porsches like BMWs have very tight engines when new. My best example is that when I picked up my M3 and traded in my E36 328is, I was suprised when I drove off the lot that I couldnt tell a difference in the two in acceleration. It changed though...the engine loosened up over the first 9000 miles. It almost felt that every time I drove it, it was getting faster. Same thing with the Porsches. My 987S now with 1500 or so miles on the odo feels much faster than when it was new.
I'll also point out that the 987S feels just as fast in a straight line as my M3, if not faster. My wife is convinced the Porsche is faster, but a lot of this has to do with how much better the handling is. When I drive them back to back, the acceleration feels identical, and surprisingly the Porsche has better low end torque. When I drive off in the M3 it always seems to lag in the lower rpms in comparison.
If the 997S didnt feel any faster than the M3 (it is) and the 987S didnt feel any faster than a 350Z (it is), then either your butt-dyno is out of tune or the Porsche engines were very green. Probably the latter. Try driving a broken-in 997 or 987 and see if you can tell a difference.
As far as the M roadster, it's hard for me to say since I havent driven it. I love the S54 engine, and I'm sure it's fun in the lighter Z4 body. I'm a little spoiled now with the mid-engine handling though, so I'm not tempted. And I wont mention the (awful) styling of the Z4. I'm a huge BMW fan, but there's nothing they make now that's on my radar for my next car. I'm hopeful they'll come through on the E90/2 M3, but if not I'm looking GT3 or 997TT.
And last, I wouldnt worry about the snobbish attitudes. By far, most people have no idea that this is anything other than a Porsche...they really cant tell a difference. Even a lot of Porsche "fanatics" don't know until they see the rear. I have been asked several times how I like my Carrera, and people stare at the car all the time. From the front, it looks all Porsche, and I would even argue that the front end of the 987 is better looking (and more like the Carerra GT) than the 997. The large engine overhang on the cab looks a little awkward to me...it's better on the Boxster because of the mid-engine layout.
Either way, you cant go wrong. Buy what you like!
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05-12-2006, 12:34 PM
#8
Ironman 140.6
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Wow, I don't even know where to start.
You have driven them all but clearly missed the difference (IMHO)....."the Drive". The M3 is heavier period and more than "just a little" 3,415 lbs vs 3,150 for the 997S (which is significantly heavier than a Boxster).
The Boxster is a pure carver, it puts the M3 and Z4 to shame when the road turns. There is no question that the Boxster is down on straight line power compaired to the 3.2 "M" motor but it has only marginally slower acceleration. Every comparison review I have seen (every single one) picks the Boxster S over the Z4M for that very reason. Finally, if you are worried about what a few "Moldy Figs" think about the Boxster, please don't buy it. If your self esteem is based on what you drive get something else.
The Carrera S not only out handles the E46 M3 it totally out muscles it. It is much more "than a little faster" (the 996 is a little faster.....997S a lot). From your post it seems like powerful acceleration is very important to you. Have you considered the new 400 hp C6? It's got gobs of torque nice and low in the power band. Another thought is to wait for the next M3. You clearly enjoy your current car and the new one (w/V8 power) will definately be a stoplight screamer (unfortunately it will probably also need a serious diet).
Something to think about as you are obviously not sold on the 987 or 997.
Good luck!!
You have driven them all but clearly missed the difference (IMHO)....."the Drive". The M3 is heavier period and more than "just a little" 3,415 lbs vs 3,150 for the 997S (which is significantly heavier than a Boxster).
The Boxster is a pure carver, it puts the M3 and Z4 to shame when the road turns. There is no question that the Boxster is down on straight line power compaired to the 3.2 "M" motor but it has only marginally slower acceleration. Every comparison review I have seen (every single one) picks the Boxster S over the Z4M for that very reason. Finally, if you are worried about what a few "Moldy Figs" think about the Boxster, please don't buy it. If your self esteem is based on what you drive get something else.
The Carrera S not only out handles the E46 M3 it totally out muscles it. It is much more "than a little faster" (the 996 is a little faster.....997S a lot). From your post it seems like powerful acceleration is very important to you. Have you considered the new 400 hp C6? It's got gobs of torque nice and low in the power band. Another thought is to wait for the next M3. You clearly enjoy your current car and the new one (w/V8 power) will definately be a stoplight screamer (unfortunately it will probably also need a serious diet).
Something to think about as you are obviously not sold on the 987 or 997.
Good luck!!
05-12-2006, 04:05 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the comments. A few things:
I drove a 997S cab. I admitted that it's faster than the M3, but it doesn't "feel" as fast. That's all I was saying. Secondly, it's not that implausible to think they are very close anyway - the 997S cab weighs 3318 lbs. vs. the M3 coupe 3415 lbs. (The 997 coupes and cabs don't weigh the same, it's one of the errors on the Porsche website. The cab weighs 200lbs more).
So, I drove the 997 with my dealer in it, and I drove home in my M3 solo. I'd say he weights 200lbs. Also 355hp vs. 333hp, 295 torque vs. 262, and as mentioned the fact that the 997 wasn't broken in. I suppose I need to drive a used one. But still, are these differences worth $40k? Moreover, M Roadster 330hp weighing 3197 lbs vs. 997s cab's 355hp 3318lbs - a slightly closer performance comparison. Worth the $40k?
Everyone is right to point out the inferior performance in the M3 but keep in mind the following. It's amazing to me that I have so much interior space (I'm 6-4), livable backseat, normal trunk, and yet the Porsche is really a true sports car. Or is the 997 now considered a luxury GT? My Cayman friend says this is the case, that the CGT and Cayman are P's sports cars now, and the 911 is shaping into a luxury/sporty GT like BMW's 6 series.
The same goes for the other M5, M6 - come on be fair, they're not true sports cars, they are sedans/coupes with very close performance to a true sports car. Isn't that something to praise, rather than deride? Yeah they would need to go on a diet, IF they were pure sports cars. To me the fact that a sports car is getting a close side by side comparison is something that counts against the sports car, not the coupe. I've never understood the negative sentiments toward M cars that I see on Porsche boards. I see nothing but praise for Porsches on the M boards.
The Boxster stigma isn't something tied to my self-esteem. When you're spending this much money on a car these subjective factors can affect your enjoyment of ownership. That's one of many reasons why I can't buy a Vette - the interior strikes me as cheesy & cheap and the corvette crowd just bothers me. Maybe it's my flaw but I can't get over it. WHen I think of buying and owning a Boxster I feel a bit let down. It just feels like a compromise. Maybe it was my 911 aspirations that ruined it for me.
Everyone talks about performance that isn't usable on the street, or that doesn't matter on the street. Why can't the same apply to the Boxster's handling characteristics around corners? Is it really that much faster around a typical suburban road curve? Are you really going to push it that much further than someone can in a slightly less capable car? It seems to me that accelerating at the car's limit on a hwy entrance is far more safe than taking a turn on public roads at the car's limit.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight with any of these items. I wanted to lay my cards on the table and see what people thought who might have been in a similar situation. I'm open to the Boxster, I truly am. I'm also down on the 997 right now. Given the car I have and that I'm still someone who sees $40k as an enormous amount of cash, this decision is very difficult.
Aaron
PS my dealer did say a 30hp increase. Either he mispoke or the Cayman S is also getting a change. My guess is the former and it will have the same engine as the Cayman S.
I drove a 997S cab. I admitted that it's faster than the M3, but it doesn't "feel" as fast. That's all I was saying. Secondly, it's not that implausible to think they are very close anyway - the 997S cab weighs 3318 lbs. vs. the M3 coupe 3415 lbs. (The 997 coupes and cabs don't weigh the same, it's one of the errors on the Porsche website. The cab weighs 200lbs more).
So, I drove the 997 with my dealer in it, and I drove home in my M3 solo. I'd say he weights 200lbs. Also 355hp vs. 333hp, 295 torque vs. 262, and as mentioned the fact that the 997 wasn't broken in. I suppose I need to drive a used one. But still, are these differences worth $40k? Moreover, M Roadster 330hp weighing 3197 lbs vs. 997s cab's 355hp 3318lbs - a slightly closer performance comparison. Worth the $40k?
Everyone is right to point out the inferior performance in the M3 but keep in mind the following. It's amazing to me that I have so much interior space (I'm 6-4), livable backseat, normal trunk, and yet the Porsche is really a true sports car. Or is the 997 now considered a luxury GT? My Cayman friend says this is the case, that the CGT and Cayman are P's sports cars now, and the 911 is shaping into a luxury/sporty GT like BMW's 6 series.
The same goes for the other M5, M6 - come on be fair, they're not true sports cars, they are sedans/coupes with very close performance to a true sports car. Isn't that something to praise, rather than deride? Yeah they would need to go on a diet, IF they were pure sports cars. To me the fact that a sports car is getting a close side by side comparison is something that counts against the sports car, not the coupe. I've never understood the negative sentiments toward M cars that I see on Porsche boards. I see nothing but praise for Porsches on the M boards.
The Boxster stigma isn't something tied to my self-esteem. When you're spending this much money on a car these subjective factors can affect your enjoyment of ownership. That's one of many reasons why I can't buy a Vette - the interior strikes me as cheesy & cheap and the corvette crowd just bothers me. Maybe it's my flaw but I can't get over it. WHen I think of buying and owning a Boxster I feel a bit let down. It just feels like a compromise. Maybe it was my 911 aspirations that ruined it for me.
Everyone talks about performance that isn't usable on the street, or that doesn't matter on the street. Why can't the same apply to the Boxster's handling characteristics around corners? Is it really that much faster around a typical suburban road curve? Are you really going to push it that much further than someone can in a slightly less capable car? It seems to me that accelerating at the car's limit on a hwy entrance is far more safe than taking a turn on public roads at the car's limit.
I wasn't trying to pick a fight with any of these items. I wanted to lay my cards on the table and see what people thought who might have been in a similar situation. I'm open to the Boxster, I truly am. I'm also down on the 997 right now. Given the car I have and that I'm still someone who sees $40k as an enormous amount of cash, this decision is very difficult.
Aaron
PS my dealer did say a 30hp increase. Either he mispoke or the Cayman S is also getting a change. My guess is the former and it will have the same engine as the Cayman S.
05-12-2006, 07:13 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
If they do an increase in the 987 line, it will be across all products (Cayman and Boxster - they are the same car ya know). It will NOT be 30 hp. Bet on 15.
Hey, we're all friends here...I don't think anyone thinks you're picking on our cars, and I really don't hear anyone bashing BMW Ms. The M cars are great...they feel different, ride different and do not hold up as well on the track (I have a lot of first hand experience here). BMW is clearly taking a HP is more strategy that, sadly, also includes great largesse in their cars. I am NOT at all interested in a 3500 lb 400 hp m3...has me wanting the 'ol e30 again! Similarly, while I will take a 997 Turbo if someone is givin em out, Porsche won't get my $$ for those overweight high power monsters (reatively light at 3450 lbs).
Porsche is about balance, and driver feel. You will rarely win a hp bragging war, but it's power TO weight and overall dynamics in which they excel.
I agree that the smoothness and low end grunt of the 997 make it deceptively fast (i.e feels slower than it is). No doubt green motors play a role here, but the car is so well insulated and polished it doesn't overwhelm you with speed. A 997S Cab is (Porsche's conservative number) 4.7 0 to 60 (5.0 for base cab), right there with the m3 coupe.
Lastly, IMNSHO, the handling dynamics of the Boxster are evident and fun at all speeds. The car is a blast in a 20 mph no braking turn coming into my neighborhood...no sliding or breakneck activity required. It's amazing how fun the car is at normal cruising around. The 997S has higher ultimate grip, but feels VERY different doing so and driving around at 3/10ths. It does take a track event to truly utilize that extra handling and acceleration prowess offered by the Carrera S, again IMHO. (I wouldn't even consider the base Carrera Cab personally, rather have the Boxster S)
All I can tell you is do what I did to make my choice 1. Drive briskly to dealer in M3, taking the dealer's favorite test drive road before parking. 2. Take out a Boxster S on the same test drive road 3. Repeat for 997S Cab. 4. Repeat for Boxster S (if needed) 5. Drive home in M3 again taking test drive road again. Put aside any bias against the entry level Porsche "chick car", and truly evaluate what you felt. Decide.
I traded my 333 hp M3 Cab (3675 #!) in for the 280 hp (3080#) Boxster S. The M3 had more torque and you felt it...but if you pay close attention the Boxster S actually felt quicker...it takes more revs but it is a fast nimble car.
In general Porsches are lighter and more tactile than their competition, thus they are the "sports cars" of the marketplace. Within the model range, I would consider the 997S Cab as more of a Sports-GT...more luxury and heavier, feature rich compared to the no excuses pure sports car of the Boxster S.
If you value the extra room and refinement of the Carrera, and the extra performance (less useful on street), and you like the rear engine feel, pony up the $$. Only you can determine what the value is for you. The Boxster S and 997S are different cars appealing to different market segments. Which one talks to you?
Hey, we're all friends here...I don't think anyone thinks you're picking on our cars, and I really don't hear anyone bashing BMW Ms. The M cars are great...they feel different, ride different and do not hold up as well on the track (I have a lot of first hand experience here). BMW is clearly taking a HP is more strategy that, sadly, also includes great largesse in their cars. I am NOT at all interested in a 3500 lb 400 hp m3...has me wanting the 'ol e30 again! Similarly, while I will take a 997 Turbo if someone is givin em out, Porsche won't get my $$ for those overweight high power monsters (reatively light at 3450 lbs).
Porsche is about balance, and driver feel. You will rarely win a hp bragging war, but it's power TO weight and overall dynamics in which they excel.
I agree that the smoothness and low end grunt of the 997 make it deceptively fast (i.e feels slower than it is). No doubt green motors play a role here, but the car is so well insulated and polished it doesn't overwhelm you with speed. A 997S Cab is (Porsche's conservative number) 4.7 0 to 60 (5.0 for base cab), right there with the m3 coupe.
Lastly, IMNSHO, the handling dynamics of the Boxster are evident and fun at all speeds. The car is a blast in a 20 mph no braking turn coming into my neighborhood...no sliding or breakneck activity required. It's amazing how fun the car is at normal cruising around. The 997S has higher ultimate grip, but feels VERY different doing so and driving around at 3/10ths. It does take a track event to truly utilize that extra handling and acceleration prowess offered by the Carrera S, again IMHO. (I wouldn't even consider the base Carrera Cab personally, rather have the Boxster S)
All I can tell you is do what I did to make my choice 1. Drive briskly to dealer in M3, taking the dealer's favorite test drive road before parking. 2. Take out a Boxster S on the same test drive road 3. Repeat for 997S Cab. 4. Repeat for Boxster S (if needed) 5. Drive home in M3 again taking test drive road again. Put aside any bias against the entry level Porsche "chick car", and truly evaluate what you felt. Decide.
I traded my 333 hp M3 Cab (3675 #!) in for the 280 hp (3080#) Boxster S. The M3 had more torque and you felt it...but if you pay close attention the Boxster S actually felt quicker...it takes more revs but it is a fast nimble car.
In general Porsches are lighter and more tactile than their competition, thus they are the "sports cars" of the marketplace. Within the model range, I would consider the 997S Cab as more of a Sports-GT...more luxury and heavier, feature rich compared to the no excuses pure sports car of the Boxster S.
If you value the extra room and refinement of the Carrera, and the extra performance (less useful on street), and you like the rear engine feel, pony up the $$. Only you can determine what the value is for you. The Boxster S and 997S are different cars appealing to different market segments. Which one talks to you?
Last edited by Chris C.; 05-12-2006 at 07:31 PM.
05-12-2006, 08:02 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Chris C.
...1. Drive briskly to dealer in M3, taking the dealer's favorite test drive road before parking. 2. Take out a Boxster S on the same test drive road 3. Repeat for 997S Cab. 4. Repeat for Boxster S (if needed) 5. Drive home in M3 again taking test drive road again. Put aside any bias against the entry level Porsche "chick car", and truly evaluate what you felt. Decide.
Aaron, go search on this:
Test Drive: Boxster S vs. M Roadster vs. Z4 3.0i (long)
After driving these 3 cars back to back to back on the same road, I don't care if the M Roadster is faster... I can't feel a .3-.5 sec difference 0-60 where the Z4M would be better. BUT, I can certainly feel how much better the Boxster S handles on EACH AND EVERY TURN. The Boxster S sound MUCH MUCH better when revving above 4k rpms also... sounds like a monster that's just not gonna stop! Needless to say, after waiting many many months for the M Roadster to come out thinking I would have been trading my Z4 3.0i for it, I end up with the Boxster S (in 15 days!!!!).
My other car? A 1999 E36 M3 with about 340hp to it. Feels great and super fast...but even at 3175 lbs, it's no Boxster S in the handling dept... That's why I'll have both!!!
05-12-2006, 08:34 PM
#12
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You guys are convincing me....
So if it's 295hp in MY 2007 would you rather go MSRP for it, or get $5k off an 06 on the lot? Wouldn't it be a thorn in one's side to have bought the last of the smaller engine?
Chris C. I'll go see your thread thanks.
Aaron
So if it's 295hp in MY 2007 would you rather go MSRP for it, or get $5k off an 06 on the lot? Wouldn't it be a thorn in one's side to have bought the last of the smaller engine?
Chris C. I'll go see your thread thanks.
Aaron
05-12-2006, 08:36 PM
#13
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Congrats Armand. Post pics after you get the car!
05-12-2006, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by yemenmocha
You guys are convincing me....
So if it's 295hp in MY 2007 would you rather go MSRP for it, or get $5k off an 06 on the lot? Wouldn't it be a thorn in one's side to have bought the last of the smaller engine?
Chris C. I'll go see your thread thanks.
Aaron
So if it's 295hp in MY 2007 would you rather go MSRP for it, or get $5k off an 06 on the lot? Wouldn't it be a thorn in one's side to have bought the last of the smaller engine?
Chris C. I'll go see your thread thanks.
Aaron
It's not the 15 hp so much as the fact that it will mean an increase to the 3.4L engine from the Cayman S. That does make sense for Porsche from a manufacturing standpoint, but it might also mean switching to the lower gearing from the Cayman resulting in a wash in straight line performance. Tough call.
05-12-2006, 09:31 PM
#15
Originally Posted by yemenmocha
.Everyone talks about performance that isn't usable on the street, or that doesn't matter on the street. Why can't the same apply to the Boxster's handling characteristics around corners? Is it really that much faster around a typical suburban road curve? Are you really going to push it that much further than someone can in a slightly less capable car?
A car's handling ability is apparent on every inch of the road and at any speed. Power is used sporadically. If there is one thing that defines the Porsche enthusiast, it's the lust for handling. It is this edge that people are willing to pay extra for. If you never come to appreciate and crave this then buying Porsche is a complete waste of money. People can make convincing points of view but unless this aspect talks to you, it will no doubt let you down.