Thoughts??
02-26-2018, 07:58 PM
#17
Porsche interiors feel designed by people who drive for fun, rather than necessity. My Lexus is nice inside, but falls short of my boxster 981 S. Everything that clicks in the 981 feels like the perfect amount of click, for example. The seats are superb as well.
-Matt
-Matt
02-26-2018, 11:11 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
"But speaking of sounds, oh, the Porsche’s. Rest in peace, flat-six, and long live the turbo four! The more time we spend with 718s—and the further into memory that six’s wail fades—the more we like the four."
Car and Driver, who are you kidding?? Everyone agrees there is no comparison soundwise between the N/A six and the turbo four. Is the CS a better car? In certain respects absolutely - steering, braking etc., but NOT sound.
Car and Driver, who are you kidding?? Everyone agrees there is no comparison soundwise between the N/A six and the turbo four. Is the CS a better car? In certain respects absolutely - steering, braking etc., but NOT sound.
I've said this a thousand times on here- the 718 does not sound "bad", but it does obviously sound different from the 981. It's actually refreshing to see this reflected in reviews these days. The less time someone has spent in a 981, the better the 718 will sound. People can hang on to that story of sound being the decisive characteristic as long as they want... at the end of the day all this talk of "soul" and "character" is actually kind of... childish. Honestly.
And for those who still insist to seek confirmation bias for poor sales... there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest that sports car sales as a whole are down. Apparently no one is buying corvettes either, despite the C7 clearly being the best Vette ever to come off a GM assembly line.
The 718 is the natural evolution, and to say Porsche didn't categorically succeed is looking more and more short sighted as time passes.
02-27-2018, 03:23 AM
#19
Agreed - with so low a boost threshold, they don’t have any excuse for confusing lag with threshold. I did like the spitting gremlin comment though - kind of curmudgeony, kind of subversive - I just hope not as mechanically destructive as “actual” gremlins. (Why did anyone name a car after them?).
02-27-2018, 05:06 AM
#20
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Not everyone agrees.
I've said this a thousand times on here- the 718 does not sound "bad", but it does obviously sound different from the 981. It's actually refreshing to see this reflected in reviews these days. The less time someone has spent in a 981, the better the 718 will sound. People can hang on to that story of sound being the decisive characteristic as long as they want... at the end of the day all this talk of "soul" and "character" is actually kind of... childish. Honestly.
And for those who still insist to seek confirmation bias for poor sales... there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest that sports car sales as a whole are down. Apparently no one is buying corvettes either, despite the C7 clearly being the best Vette ever to come off a GM assembly line.
The 718 is the natural evolution, and to say Porsche didn't categorically succeed is looking more and more short sighted as time passes.
I've said this a thousand times on here- the 718 does not sound "bad", but it does obviously sound different from the 981. It's actually refreshing to see this reflected in reviews these days. The less time someone has spent in a 981, the better the 718 will sound. People can hang on to that story of sound being the decisive characteristic as long as they want... at the end of the day all this talk of "soul" and "character" is actually kind of... childish. Honestly.
And for those who still insist to seek confirmation bias for poor sales... there's plenty of evidence out there to suggest that sports car sales as a whole are down. Apparently no one is buying corvettes either, despite the C7 clearly being the best Vette ever to come off a GM assembly line.
The 718 is the natural evolution, and to say Porsche didn't categorically succeed is looking more and more short sighted as time passes.
02-27-2018, 09:49 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It is clear we have a serious divide over sound and lag. Whatever floats your boat.
It is interesting the 718 along with the new Ford GT made it to the list of the 10 worst sounding cars you can buy https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/g6776/worst-sounding-performance-cars/?src=nl&mag=rdt&list=nl_rdt_news&date=022318. It doesn't make it a bad car by any means.
I don't think we will ever agree on this. To some of us sound is clearly a critical aspect of the experience. My stock 964's were so silenced from the factory they barely made any sound at all. Thankfully with minor mods they can be made to sound better than most cars I have driven. I have purchased almost all my cars in the past based on not only feel, ability but sound as well. Many of my tow vehicles I spec'd with the larger displacement engines because they had a lot of low end torque and grunt. My current TV is a Ford F-150 Raptor 6.2l. I absolutely love this truck not only for the 6.2L sound but the way the throttle responds and how I don't have to wind it out like the eco boost engines to get the same performance around town. No doubt with Drive by wire this can be adjusted but I test drove the new Raptor and clearly it is faster and more capable but I will drive my 13 raptor into the ground and look for another before i buy the new version. Far too many gears and constantly hunting for the right gear not to mention only 500 rpm difference between most of the gearing. Some seem to love it I can't stand it.
I have said it repeatedly the 718 is a very capable auto I just find the 981 to be more well rounded for my needs. So it is slower but responds very differently and I prefer the response of the n/a 6 with 6 speed vs the turbo 4 with 6 speed. I could care less if it is slower or faster than anything else. I enjoy the platform and the 981 to me is the most evenly sliced pie of this platform. Evenly balanced in just about every aspect I consider critical. I actually prefer a less responsive steering rack as I do my 964 over a 993. I said it before I am old school and I prefer to drive a slow car fast than a faster car slow. When I drive the 718 I find the pie is sliced a bit differently some slices are larger than others as i see it. I am sure this is seen by others as a pie that is sliced just the way they like it. I am concerned though that this is just a way to get customers to think less about sound so when things start turning electric we can all feel as though we are not missing as much as if we went from an N/A to an electric sound. Will we only have 7 slices then LOL.
I look forward to seeing what aftermarket exhausts become available for these. As I do notice the lag albeit mild compared to my other cars and I am sure that the sound can be improved upon although Porsche has done a great job engineering the sound from some of their other models. I am not sure if there is a sport exhaust offered for the 718 from Porsche or not but it would be interesting to hear what how it sounds and if that helps me accept the car more. I also prefer the sound of the sport exhaust in my 981 BGTS over the stock exhaust of the 981S. So it isn't just one engine over the other.
One more point. I would have preferred that Porsche found a way to add the GT3 multi link rear suspension long before they make the car any faster but that is me.
It is interesting the 718 along with the new Ford GT made it to the list of the 10 worst sounding cars you can buy https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/g6776/worst-sounding-performance-cars/?src=nl&mag=rdt&list=nl_rdt_news&date=022318. It doesn't make it a bad car by any means.
I don't think we will ever agree on this. To some of us sound is clearly a critical aspect of the experience. My stock 964's were so silenced from the factory they barely made any sound at all. Thankfully with minor mods they can be made to sound better than most cars I have driven. I have purchased almost all my cars in the past based on not only feel, ability but sound as well. Many of my tow vehicles I spec'd with the larger displacement engines because they had a lot of low end torque and grunt. My current TV is a Ford F-150 Raptor 6.2l. I absolutely love this truck not only for the 6.2L sound but the way the throttle responds and how I don't have to wind it out like the eco boost engines to get the same performance around town. No doubt with Drive by wire this can be adjusted but I test drove the new Raptor and clearly it is faster and more capable but I will drive my 13 raptor into the ground and look for another before i buy the new version. Far too many gears and constantly hunting for the right gear not to mention only 500 rpm difference between most of the gearing. Some seem to love it I can't stand it.
I have said it repeatedly the 718 is a very capable auto I just find the 981 to be more well rounded for my needs. So it is slower but responds very differently and I prefer the response of the n/a 6 with 6 speed vs the turbo 4 with 6 speed. I could care less if it is slower or faster than anything else. I enjoy the platform and the 981 to me is the most evenly sliced pie of this platform. Evenly balanced in just about every aspect I consider critical. I actually prefer a less responsive steering rack as I do my 964 over a 993. I said it before I am old school and I prefer to drive a slow car fast than a faster car slow. When I drive the 718 I find the pie is sliced a bit differently some slices are larger than others as i see it. I am sure this is seen by others as a pie that is sliced just the way they like it. I am concerned though that this is just a way to get customers to think less about sound so when things start turning electric we can all feel as though we are not missing as much as if we went from an N/A to an electric sound. Will we only have 7 slices then LOL.
I look forward to seeing what aftermarket exhausts become available for these. As I do notice the lag albeit mild compared to my other cars and I am sure that the sound can be improved upon although Porsche has done a great job engineering the sound from some of their other models. I am not sure if there is a sport exhaust offered for the 718 from Porsche or not but it would be interesting to hear what how it sounds and if that helps me accept the car more. I also prefer the sound of the sport exhaust in my 981 BGTS over the stock exhaust of the 981S. So it isn't just one engine over the other.
One more point. I would have preferred that Porsche found a way to add the GT3 multi link rear suspension long before they make the car any faster but that is me.
02-27-2018, 12:26 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
It is clear we have a serious divide over sound and lag. Whatever floats your boat.
It is interesting the 718 along with the new Ford GT made it to the list of the 10 worst sounding cars you can buy https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ws&date=022318. It doesn't make it a bad car by any means.
I don't think we will ever agree on this.
It is interesting the 718 along with the new Ford GT made it to the list of the 10 worst sounding cars you can buy https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ws&date=022318. It doesn't make it a bad car by any means.
I don't think we will ever agree on this.
I think the qualifier is in the higher rev range. I'll concede that one thing all these cars had in common is they don't seem to "escalate" like the 981 does, to reward you with an admittedly intoxicating crescendo. But that said, one thing I always thoroughly enjoyed about my STI was how it sounded WITHOUT having to risk going to jail. The 718 gives you that. Its low rumble and growl is arguably more enjoyable to me under most normal circumstances driving around town than my 981 BGTS. Blasphemy, I know. But all that goes away once you open the 981 up. The 718's drawback is that it always sounds like it's short shifting. So... none of these "bad sounding performance cars", including the 718 sound "bad". Only some of them (like the 981) sound subjectively better.
I picked my 981 because of the sum of its parts, as you said. The fact that the flat 6 is nearly synonymous with Porsche was no small factor...and neither was the fact that it costed roughly 2/3 what a new 718 GTS would cost. Made it a no-brainer.
That said, I still lust over the 718, and some of these pics of guys getting the GTS makes me salivate. On a long enough timeline I absolutely could see myself picking up a 718 Cayman GTS (and keeping the Boxster).
02-27-2018, 01:04 PM
#23
I have said it repeatedly the 718 is a very capable auto I just find the 981 to be more well rounded for my needs. So it is slower but responds very differently and I prefer the response of the n/a 6 with 6 speed vs the turbo 4 with 6 speed. I could care less if it is slower or faster than anything else. I enjoy the platform and the 981 to me is the most evenly sliced pie of this platform. Evenly balanced in just about every aspect I consider critical. I actually prefer a less responsive steering rack as I do my 964 over a 993. I said it before I am old school and I prefer to drive a slow car fast than a faster car slow. When I drive the 718 I find the pie is sliced a bit differently some slices are larger than others as i see it. I am sure this is seen by others as a pie that is sliced just the way they like it. I am concerned though that this is just a way to get customers to think less about sound so when things start turning electric we can all feel as though we are not missing as much as if we went from an N/A to an electric sound. Will we only have 7 slices then LOL.
02-27-2018, 04:07 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well said, and I agree (to disagree). Because none of those cars sounded bad to me. Clear case of clickbait, particularly because this conversation is so divisive.
I think the qualifier is in the higher rev range. I'll concede that one thing all these cars had in common is they don't seem to "escalate" like the 981 does, to reward you with an admittedly intoxicating crescendo. But that said, one thing I always thoroughly enjoyed about my STI was how it sounded WITHOUT having to risk going to jail. The 718 gives you that. Its low rumble and growl is arguably more enjoyable to me under most normal circumstances driving around town than my 981 BGTS. Blasphemy, I know. But all that goes away once you open the 981 up. The 718's drawback is that it always sounds like it's short shifting. So... none of these "bad sounding performance cars", including the 718 sound "bad". Only some of them (like the 981) sound subjectively better.
I picked my 981 because of the sum of its parts, as you said. The fact that the flat 6 is nearly synonymous with Porsche was no small factor...and neither was the fact that it costed roughly 2/3 what a new 718 GTS would cost. Made it a no-brainer.
That said, I still lust over the 718, and some of these pics of guys getting the GTS makes me salivate. On a long enough timeline I absolutely could see myself picking up a 718 Cayman GTS (and keeping the Boxster).
I think the qualifier is in the higher rev range. I'll concede that one thing all these cars had in common is they don't seem to "escalate" like the 981 does, to reward you with an admittedly intoxicating crescendo. But that said, one thing I always thoroughly enjoyed about my STI was how it sounded WITHOUT having to risk going to jail. The 718 gives you that. Its low rumble and growl is arguably more enjoyable to me under most normal circumstances driving around town than my 981 BGTS. Blasphemy, I know. But all that goes away once you open the 981 up. The 718's drawback is that it always sounds like it's short shifting. So... none of these "bad sounding performance cars", including the 718 sound "bad". Only some of them (like the 981) sound subjectively better.
I picked my 981 because of the sum of its parts, as you said. The fact that the flat 6 is nearly synonymous with Porsche was no small factor...and neither was the fact that it costed roughly 2/3 what a new 718 GTS would cost. Made it a no-brainer.
That said, I still lust over the 718, and some of these pics of guys getting the GTS makes me salivate. On a long enough timeline I absolutely could see myself picking up a 718 Cayman GTS (and keeping the Boxster).
As with anything it is the first gen of a change. I have no doubt Porsche has left a lot on the back burner with these and we will see what changes they make over its life. They love to do that as do all car companies. keep feeding a little bit more until they make a huge change. Not like years ago when they pretty much kept the cars the same and made changes only to fix known problem areas. I'm fine with what I have although the last GT3RS with a N/A engine might need to be looked into. Another era coming to an end.