SO many GT4's for sale....
12-28-2017, 05:30 AM
#31
Haven't checked prices lately, but last I did, it seems they haven't budged at all. I don't think GT4's are built at anywhere NEAR levels that will challenge their future values. Being not only the last of the N/A C/B's, but the last of the N/A AND flat 6 C/B's, every single one will see favorable future resales, none no more than the GT4/Spyder. IMO, due to the brand recognition of the GT cars, the GT4 even more so.
I find the 981 GTS's were underappreciated due to the justified excitement over the GT4. But I see more and more people recognizing how perhaps they're the perfect real-world/road going mid engine sports car. Sound of an atmospheric flat six, comfortable enough for mundane urban drives, and handling that's second to none outside of the succeeding and GT models? Can't really beat it. IMO, eventually (if not already), 981 GTS's will be more and more favored by the market.
I find the 981 GTS's were underappreciated due to the justified excitement over the GT4. But I see more and more people recognizing how perhaps they're the perfect real-world/road going mid engine sports car. Sound of an atmospheric flat six, comfortable enough for mundane urban drives, and handling that's second to none outside of the succeeding and GT models? Can't really beat it. IMO, eventually (if not already), 981 GTS's will be more and more favored by the market.
That said I was loaned a 718S last week and thought that was incredible too. Sound less lovely (though I wouldn’t say ‘bad’), and for some reason the lag bothered me less than in the 991.2. Maybe my expectations were lower or maybe it’s because, even though it’s 4-cyl, at least it’s reasonably loud at low revs. Reminded me of my old BMW1200 GS a little bit. Very practical, slightly agricultural, essentially great.
12-28-2017, 05:47 AM
#32
Not a GTS I know, but Old Mother Rat has a 981S and it’s the most fantastically versatile, do-anything car.
That said I was loaned a 718S last week and thought that was incredible too. Sound less lovely (though I wouldn’t say ‘bad’), and for some reason the lag bothered me less than in the 991.2. Maybe my expectations were lower or maybe it’s because, even though it’s 4-cyl, at least it’s reasonably loud at low revs. Reminded me of my old BMW1200 GS a little bit. Very practical, slightly agricultural, essentially great.
And my personal feeling/prediction is that every N/A flat six Boxster/Cayman is an instant legend, and will be rewarded by the market in the future. Absolutely flawless canyon carvers with real world capabilities, and a soulfully musical soundtrack that will only be more and more appreciated as we go from bland F/I soundtracks into soulless EV's.
12-28-2017, 07:06 AM
#33
Interesting you say that, as I feel similarly. The 718 Boxster S I had as a loaner was flat out one of the best car I've ever driven, period. I however did find its exhaust tone very bad. Though, I also find the 991.2's exhaust tone pretty lousy, and while it's not as offensive as the 718's 4, imo it's lacking in grit and character and harbors a comedically clinical turbo "woosh," while the 718's sound is at the very least audible from the cabin (not that it's a great sound, but the 991.2 is frankly way too quiet to me). I also agree that the 718's 4 feels a little less laggy. I hate that I'm saying this, but I enjoyed the way the 718's 4 cylinder performed/felt in terms of drive, powerband and response over the 991.2's boosted six. But indeed, it could be that it's wrapped in a more visceral and audible package. Go figure.
And my personal feeling/prediction is that every N/A flat six Boxster/Cayman is an instant legend, and will be rewarded by the market in the future. Absolutely flawless canyon carvers with real world capabilities, and a soulfully musical soundtrack that will only be more and more appreciated as we go from bland F/I soundtracks into soulless EV's.
And my personal feeling/prediction is that every N/A flat six Boxster/Cayman is an instant legend, and will be rewarded by the market in the future. Absolutely flawless canyon carvers with real world capabilities, and a soulfully musical soundtrack that will only be more and more appreciated as we go from bland F/I soundtracks into soulless EV's.
Last edited by Maverick787; 12-28-2017 at 09:52 AM.
12-28-2017, 07:31 AM
#34
i think your comments are spot on as we all reach the the big push to the turbo era weather we like it or not. The turbo cars perform really well with the torque, and what we’re seening drivers are defaulting to feel and sound. I’m getting ride of my M4 because the sound is horrible and I tried to get use to it. I should have known better as I did the same with my M5, but it was more weight related .......but same weird fart sound. I bought a 458 Spyder because I love the sound, and passed on a 488. Boys we’re seeing the last of the great sounding cars. Honestly I’m to the point I don’t want to go any faster give me sound and a good sounding engine. I know it’s not a avoidable limited choices when buying new.
I haven't driven a 488, but I did an F430 on track and a CaliforniaT. And while that "T" engine is powerful, guess what? To many degrees, it felt like every other turbo engine I've driven, just dialed differently in power. Turbos suck out so much feel and emotion from an engine, it gets hard to tell them apart. Nissan GTR, CaliforniaT, 991.2, new Macan, new Panny, new Audi, something every homogenized about the powertrains: Flat torque curves, filtered soundtracks, little bits of turbo lag, gobs of power, etc.
Great choice on the 458. I was behind one the other day in my 991.1 with an X Pipe replacing the center muffler which is an occasion where I rarely think anything around me sounds as good. Enter said 458: The soundtrack was booming off of buildings, it was the only moment where my car got demoted from tigerous scream to purring kitten.
The 488 is pretty (what Ferrari isn't), but it could run around a track I'll never drive on at 20 seconds faster than a 458 for all I care. One push of the 458 accelerator pedal and the sound and responsiveness that ensues would make my decision for me.
12-28-2017, 10:03 AM
#35
^^^^
All things said these are the two I keep, and for a DD it will be a SUV there is no 4 door car that I want to drive which is sad. Speed and power are killing off the fun(:
All things said these are the two I keep, and for a DD it will be a SUV there is no 4 door car that I want to drive which is sad. Speed and power are killing off the fun(:
12-28-2017, 10:20 AM
#36
I spent a week in an M4 convertible driving up the coast of California. I hated that car. Gargling rocks is a pretty good description of the exhaust note. I would have much rather been in my 4GC, or even better, my little Miata. Tried to rent a Boxster but no one would let me pick it up in southern California and drop it off in San Francisco.
12-28-2017, 12:57 PM
#37
I spent a week in an M4 convertible driving up the coast of California. I hated that car. Gargling rocks is a pretty good description of the exhaust note. I would have much rather been in my 4GC, or even better, my little Miata. Tried to rent a Boxster but no one would let me pick it up in southern California and drop it off in San Francisco.
12-29-2017, 01:05 PM
#38
Interesting discussion. Would need some seat time again in a 991.2 to confirm my opinion, but did feel the 718 had a more appealing soul in spite of the fewer cylinders. And I know I’ve beaten this drum before but I don’t understand people getting their knickers in a twist re that. Ducatis have two cylinders while most of their competitors have four. Do we hear anyone saying they won’t pay £$XX,000 for a Panigale because it’s a twin?
12-29-2017, 02:03 PM
#39
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Interesting discussion. Would need some seat time again in a 991.2 to confirm my opinion, but did feel the 718 had a more appealing soul in spite of the fewer cylinders. And I know I’ve beaten this drum before but I don’t understand people getting their knickers in a twist re that. Ducatis have two cylinders while most of their competitors have four. Do we hear anyone saying they won’t pay £$XX,000 for a Panigale because it’s a twin?
While none of this matters now, in 10 -15 years I have to wonder if these engines will become problematic and more costly to maintain versus a similar naturally aspirated 981.
Last edited by Marine Blue; 12-30-2017 at 12:08 AM.
12-29-2017, 04:07 PM
#40
Originally Posted by MagicRat
Interesting discussion. Would need some seat time again in a 991.2 to confirm my opinion, but did feel the 718 had a more appealing soul in spite of the fewer cylinders. And I know I’ve beaten this drum before but I don’t understand people getting their knickers in a twist re that. Ducatis have two cylinders while most of their competitors have four. Do we hear anyone saying they won’t pay £$XX,000 for a Panigale because it’s a twin?
12-29-2017, 04:32 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Ferrari clearly nailed the design that makes their Spiders look as good with the top up! Just look at it! If one didn't know, might think it's a coupe! Love it! Good choice!
As for staying on topic: Despite the fact GT4 is an extremely great value, looks awesome and handles like any other fine product from GT Division, it will always be in the shadows of it's big brother, GT3! Doesn't help the fact that the components are 'hand-me-down' (as opposed to bespoke), though they don't diminish the result in any way. Though it's a GT car, many still (and, will always) pine for a GT3. It's a tough life being a little brother of an icon! If 982 GT4 turns out to be a turbo, then the values will shoot up. If NA, might see a dip, as everyone and his brother knows!
12-29-2017, 09:00 PM
#42
Interesting discussion. Would need some seat time again in a 991.2 to confirm my opinion, but did feel the 718 had a more appealing soul in spite of the fewer cylinders. And I know I’ve beaten this drum before but I don’t understand people getting their knickers in a twist re that. Ducatis have two cylinders while most of their competitors have four. Do we hear anyone saying they won’t pay £$XX,000 for a Panigale because it’s a twin?
The 981 is the perfect combo imo. The 3.4+ versions all comfortably in the 12’s (1/4 mile) which is faster than I’ll ever need, sound amazing, and you can actually exercise the rev range (going fast isn’t fun to me on public roads. Going 25 MPH around a turn and STILL grinning ear to ear with your aural and tactile sensations pinging is what it’s all about). In fact, that is way too fast itself to really accomplish that, but it’s far closer.
The 718 is a riot in its own right. More than any non-GT3 991.2. But, I never really found much pleasure in revving it out. It was more about torque bursts which matched with the sound got old after awhile. Thankfully, the chassis is so excellent, taking turns never got old.
12-30-2017, 10:23 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Wouldn't trade my 981 BGTS for a 981 Spyder or 981 GT4. With PDK and PTV, it's probably faster, with headers / tune it definitely is faster (sounds better too). 981 GTS were allocated to dealers separate from S and base, had to wait for a GTS specific allocation to order mine. GT4s were not built in the GT division, you might not like it, but facts are facts.
12-31-2017, 12:31 AM
#44
‘Phil spot on ........I posted the Porsche press release which stated the GT4 was built by the GT division it’s a fact.
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=905
http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=905
12-31-2017, 05:10 AM
#45
IMO the analogy doesn’t translate to cars, especially F4 vs F6. But I do agree that the 718 harbors more soul than the 991.2. Could be that the rambunctiousness inherent within a 4 cylinder sort of combats the drowsy (powerful, yet drowsy in soulfulness) turbo effect, while what makes an N/A flat six so masterful (the inherent balance within a boxer 6 + the gruff natural aspirated sound is at once refined and raw) now with a turbo added on, is just far too smooth and refined (dulled) for its own good. Imo.
The 981 is the perfect combo imo. The 3.4+ versions all comfortably in the 12’s (1/4 mile) which is faster than I’ll ever need, sound amazing, and you can actually exercise the rev range (going fast isn’t fun to me on public roads. Going 25 MPH around a turn and STILL grinning ear to ear with your aural and tactile sensations pinging is what it’s all about). In fact, that is way too fast itself to really accomplish that, but it’s far closer.
The 718 is a riot in its own right. More than any non-GT3 991.2. But, I never really found much pleasure in revving it out. It was more about torque bursts which matched with the sound got old after awhile. Thankfully, the chassis is so excellent, taking turns never got old.
I appreciate the analogy doesn’t translate perfectly, but I did end up trading my torque-monster R1200GS for a revvier S1000R!