terbiumactivated

There's a big difference in a strong word like annoyed by the sound and preference for the six sound. It's all personal choice and that's fine. Most people on here want MT and hate PDK, find me a modern race car that's still MT. It's just the way it is and frankly a really great problem to debate if that's your only problem in this life.

Mechanic

Mr. Elliott, for the last 18 months or more, I've made it a point not to criticize the 718. Mostly, I guess, that's because it seems sort of rude to do so. I mean, a guy lays out at least $80k or more for the car of his dreams, the last thing he needs is some stranger, another gearhead, raining on his parade.

So, for what it's worth, let me say I think you have chosen one of two possible solutions to the ongoing 718 "controversy" (sic): namely, you've ordered one (and a damn neat one at that) which you've explained you intend to take to the track on a regular basis. Makes perfect sense. The GTS will eat up a bunch of 991s, and that's as good a reason to own a 718 as any. Doesn't hurt that it will look great while doing that.

The other mitigating solution -- not entirely a fix, but a solid mitigator -- is one of AWE's exhaust systems. (I hasten to add I have no financial ties to the company whatsoever.) I just think that particular exhaust system does wonders for the 718. There are any number of other systems out there now, including the OEM sport exhaust system, but to my ears the other options add little more than unnecessary noise and/or have a tinny/rattling sound somewhere in the rpm range.

In any case, I may eventually succumb to the fact that, as Porsche used to advertise, "[T]here is no substitute" and buy a 718S, but for now I tend to agree with this fellow:

I certainly agree with his point about the cost of the car.

A footnote of sorts: A lot of my distemper regarding the 718 is borne of the fact that I ordered a new 981 Boxster S in late 2016. Porsche AG accepted the order, gave me a sequence number, etc., sent me a nice "you're in the queue letter," etc., and then, out of the blue, the sons-of-xxitches arbitrarily canceled my order. End of year shutdown was the explanation. I haven't gotten past that. I firmly believe my order cancellation was Porsche's way of coercing those similarly situated into accepting a turbocharged 4-cylinder Boxster in lieu of the cars we ordered. Suffice it to say I was pissed. I may get past that eventually, but in the interim I'm with clutchplate: $80k ($90k for the GTS) for a 4-cylinder car that will depreciate like a stone is just a tad over the top. Nonetheless, I envy the fact that you are getting a Boxster that meets all of your expectations.

John Elliot

Mechanic, I would be upset as well if they didn't fill my order.

The 2012 Cayman R and the 2018 718 GTS were close in price and I believe the Boxster will be a little quicker on the Track. I'm sure the resale value will not be as high as the other smaller production number models I've had.

Porsche makes so many Sports Car Models that a customer can choose from and enjoy.

squid42

It is the usual discount parts bin over the S. An S with all the options that come with the GTS is more expensive.

I am more miffed about a few rippoff details in the GTS pricing:
- satin platinum wheels should be same as satin black, now it is 690 bucks extra. The satin black doesn't look good IMHO
- $220 to darken up the rear "PORSCHE" lettering that is so ugly on the 718 anyway?
- PDLS Xenons only in black for $1500. Excuse me?
- to make the sportdesign package black you pay $500 in the S and $970 in the GTS?
- as usual, a whole bunch of secondary color choices are deleted with the GTS. Why? It's outright childish at that point

I will also confirm that I think the 718 S engine with its supposed variable geometry turbo feels very odd. I never drove a base model 718. The sound without PSE in a S was terrible not because of the 4 cylinder but because of the juvenile noise it made, without ability to tame it with a switch.

Porsche should pull themselves together and not treat 718 buyers like idiots.

Archimedes

Yeah, the car Chris Harris called 'probably the best drivers car you can buy at any price' suddenly 'can't deliver performance' and is 'an anachronism' because Porsche released a fart can exhaust four banger with a little more absolute power. That's funny.

I think you have shiny penny syndrome. Where you think the new thing is always 'better'. You do know that an $80,000 Camaro will outperform any of these cars we're discussing, right? Do you think it's a 'better' car?

And good choice of words included global in the second paragraph. Because if it wasn't for the Chinese buying (having to buy) four banger turbos, Porsche would be sucking wind right now.

Archimedes

Dario was commenting about the 718 GTS relative to the 718 S. He was not comparing it to the 981. He was saying that he could feel the additional 15hp in the GTS, which is absolute nonsense, as is his 'it's a material percentage' comment. Good commercial though.

Maverick787

Personally I would take a NA motor over any turbo engine based on todays choices, and clearly Porsche was forced into it for compliance for 2020. 911 sales are not that strong either ...the economy has some noise in the equation, but also some buys are shying away from the turbo. I buy from three dealers and they all have said the same. However, each to his own for what they enjoy .........the 981 is a brilliant sounding and handling car. The Spyder and my RS will be in my garage for a long time.

Maverick787

http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-a...ris-981-a.html

randr

The 3.4l NA is indeed an anachronism (originally released in 1999 or thereabouts), it is completely outdated - the performance bench mark was several years ago ~2015 not ~2018. You need to think in terms of power under the curve, I'm sure you know this but if you want be obtuse........

The 718S is an even better drive than the 981 - these are facts

(1) it stops in a shorter distance and has uprated brakes
(2) the steering is sharper and more precise thanks to the rack from the turbo
(3) the handling is better due to the retuned suspension, N1 tires and (2)
(4) the rate of acceleration has further increased due to the addition of turbos
(5) and the GTS has iced the cake with an additional 15HP across the curve and now has 10Nm more torque than the peak offered by the GT4 - and yes you can feel a gain when its across the curve.

What has a Camaro got to do with anything, and specifically the car you are talking about the Zl1 1LE which is a race prepped muscle car


"Good choice of words", globally, and as reported by Porsche, sales of the 718 are up Y-O-Y. Thats another fact.

The reality is, the facts just don't suit the NA crowds view or your view. Thus some of you want to denigrate other peoples choices simply because they don't fit your shallow narrative. Which boils down to your view of what constitutes "good sound"

Something to digest - (1) does Porsche sell more NA vehicles or turbocharged vehicles, answer = turbocharged vehicles (2) does Porsche sell more manual equipped vehicles or PDK equipped vehicles, answer = PDK equipped vehicles.

randr

Well said John - You and your wife will have a blast. Make sure you post some photos and write up first impressions when you have the chance

blacksheepSpyder

Okay, I have had enough of this thread...

My final rant on the subject.

I spent over 35 years in the 914 world. I had a 74 2.0 (4 banger) at 16. I had another 74 1.8 that I converted to a 3.2 (1986) GT Clone.

I also had a couple 70 914's that I converted to 2.0 fours for my boys.

The four cylinder cars are hard to get some parts for now but I can make them run well. The sixes are worth lots of money but since they shared parts with the 911's they are easier to keep going.

After all that, I sold the 914-6 GT and got a 981 Spyder ( that is a 3.8 Carrera S motor for those of you who don't know). It has 6 piston front brakes and a 6spd manual gear box. It will out stop the 718.

I plan on keeping the Spyder (Got it two years ago when I was 51) until I am either dead or too damn old to drive it... (ancient like 70 HA!)... I doubt you will keep your 718 running until 2047 but my Spyder will be still running strong.

My point is this... If Porsche's are some toss away toy for some of you spoiled brats then that is fine. I have met lots of folks like you in 35+ years of the PCA.

For me, this 3.8 NA 6 speed is the car my 914 always should have been. I won't trade it for anything.

I wouldn't trade you for two 718's and I can say that as far as small turbos go. (eventually they all go bang)

I do all my own work... I hate replacing turbos on the VW's. Fuel injectors on direct injection motors suck bad enough. Also I think you should bypass that oil line from the case back to the intake unless you like cleaning your valves. Yeah I have a lift, a plasma cutter, many paint guns, a welder and can tear down a car and put it back together again.

Yeah my Spyder isn't stock, some of you stare in amazement as I explain how easy it was to put race headers on the Spyder and Cobb tune it. Clean a valve from the top side? Heck, most of the guys I meet don't change oil.

When I was growing up gear heads worked on cars (smart ones worked on German cars). Then again, engineering isn't for everyone. Math can be hard. I guess Ponzi scheming is stressful too, so I shouldn't make fun.

randr

Interesting rant. Why would you join PCA at the age of 15 and remain a member given your views in relation to some of your fellow members?

BTW Six pots don't stop a car any better than four pots as stopping distance is entirely dependant on contact patch cf - in other words tires.

Porsche history with NA since the water cooled era has not been stellar:
(1) cylinder scoring leading to engine failure
(2) IMS bearing failure leading to engine failure
(3) incorrect fitment of oil lines leading to fires
(4) finger follower non oiling leading to engine failure
(5) 3rd gear failure leading to gear box failure (NA GT4).

Now back to the 718 GTS

terbiumactivated

Thus some of you want to denigrate other peoples choices simply because they don't fit your shallow narrative. Well correct me if I'm wrong because to use a car metaphor you just took a "stanley steemer" on my 3.4 DFI 9A1 engine as some fossil throw back. No matter, you win the speed contest I'll keep the winner of the unique, cool and first of the Spyders contest.

randr

Not at all, I own both NA and turbocharged Porsche sports cars. I accept the 9A1 is an old design - simply because it is, and I have one in my GTS.

My comment applies to those that simply want to denigrate other peoples choices.

Its pretty straight forward a 365HP, 420Nm GTS with improvements in relation to handling, steering and braking (relative to the 981) will clearly be a great drivers car. Sound, colour, looks are all subjective.

The choices are quite simple if you want a mid-engined sports car e.g. 488GTB, McLaren (various), Lotus (various), Audi R8, Lambo anyone?

At the end of the day the 718GTS will prove to be a great sweet spot, as the 981GTS was in its day.

blacksheepSpyder

Thanks for making my point, 53-35 is 18.
And just because I am Catholic doesn't mean I agree with everyone at Church.