986 boxster S vs 987 vs 996
10-15-2017, 03:38 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
986 boxster S vs 987 vs 996
Hello guys, I am new to the forum and porsche(besides the SUV which doesn't count) and thought it'd be great to get some insights from actual owners.
I am currently thinking of buying either 986 boxster S, 987 Cayman or 996 C2 for occasional back roads and track use
as they are similarly priced in my region. The only difference is that 987 comes with factory CPO warranty.
I threw in boxster among the crew because
1. I noticed it actually is lighter than any other porsche (besides special edition); and
2. I like to feel that breeze through my hair sometimes.
I do recognize that for all out driving, Cayman is the more sensible choice for its rigidity, but 996 has the most kW.
I've test drove all of them, but can't decide as each has its own merits so I decided to base my decision on the following factors:
1. How do these compare maintenance wise?
2. What are the costs for IMS reinforcement for each vehicle? Does this void warranty?
3. What are the most common problems of each vehicle?
I am currently thinking of buying either 986 boxster S, 987 Cayman or 996 C2 for occasional back roads and track use
as they are similarly priced in my region. The only difference is that 987 comes with factory CPO warranty.
I threw in boxster among the crew because
1. I noticed it actually is lighter than any other porsche (besides special edition); and
2. I like to feel that breeze through my hair sometimes.
I do recognize that for all out driving, Cayman is the more sensible choice for its rigidity, but 996 has the most kW.
I've test drove all of them, but can't decide as each has its own merits so I decided to base my decision on the following factors:
1. How do these compare maintenance wise?
2. What are the costs for IMS reinforcement for each vehicle? Does this void warranty?
3. What are the most common problems of each vehicle?
10-15-2017, 01:33 PM
#3
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IMS only affected 4-5% of cars. Roll the dice or pay 1500usd to fix it.
If you're serious about tracking get the cayman.
If you want the most nimble top town experience get the Boxster.
If you want the icon or any sense of practicality for long weekends get the 911.
All great choices and all very different.
If you're serious about tracking get the cayman.
If you want the most nimble top town experience get the Boxster.
If you want the icon or any sense of practicality for long weekends get the 911.
All great choices and all very different.
10-15-2017, 03:26 PM
#4
Race Director
Good replies.
Let me add my two cents...
The Boxster is a pretty rigid car. If you really want the air through the hair experience then get the Boxster and enjoy the superb road manners and handling even when pushing the car.
You need to be sure you want the top down experience. The top will at some point leak or the hardware wear out.
After owning a Boxster for a number of years and putting over 315K miles on it (almost all with the top up I might add) and a 996 (Turbo) since June 2009 (and putting over 140K miles on it) maintenance wise the cars are very similar at least regarding scheduled maintenance. Oil/filter, air filter, brake fluid (and for manuals clutch fluid), transmission fluid services are the "same", that is occur at the same number of miles or after the same amount of time.
'course, the same service for my Turbo costs more than for my Boxster. The difference between a 986/987 vs. a 996 (NA car) would be I would guess be in favor of the 986/987 but not by much and probably not by enough to be a factor.
Feel compelled to say this: If the few dollars difference in servicing is a big concern then neither car is probably for you.
This is not intended as some kind of slam towards you. These cars are quite expensive to buy when new. Used while they cost less the cost to service/maintain them the way they should be serviced/maintained doesn't get any less expensive. While one doesn't need Bill Gates money these are not cars to buy and expected to be enjoyed and operated on a tight or limited budget.
Certainly if one is able to he can do some things and save some money, at least labor costs.
Can't help you regarding the iMS question regarding costs.
For warranty questions you'll have to speak to the company that offers the warranty to find out what the presence of an aftermarket IMSB solution/fix does to the warranty. More than speak with the company, get the agreement's fine print and read it 3 times. It is what is in the fine print the company will do not what someone tells you over the phone. 'course if you hear over the phone the IMSB voids the warranty you can save yourself the trouble of reading the fine print.
Off hand I'd have to say the presence of an IMSB upgrade brings into question the warranty at least on the engine.
If the transmission dies that's probably a claim the warranthy company would honor.
But if the engine dies the warranty company could use the presence of a non-factory engine modification to deny the claim.
These cars are just well, cars, and are prone to the problems all cars are prone to. Ignoring wear items, though with enough miles all items are wear items, there is the water pump, fuel pump. Ignition switches have been known to wear out. And over a large enough sample of vehicles, any and all of the engine subsystems can act up. I'm talking about the starter, alternator, MAF, E-Gas (pedal), throttle body. O2 sensors are wear items but when they'll wear out depends.
Inside the various brake/clutch light and interlock/safety switches can and do wear out. Both window regulators in my Boxster wore out and were replaced along with other interior door hardware, like door lock controller, door latch switches and both door membranes. (More on this below.)
A real common problem and one not generally found with other cars is the AOS. My Boxster has been through 3 of these. The Turbo engine doesn't have the problematic AOS but the Cayman and 996 do have the problematic AOS.
When the AOS goes bad you really get little warning but you do get a some kind of clear indication -- billowing clouds of oil smoke from the exhaust -- that the AOS is bad.
At this point you can't continue to use the car, even run the engine, in this case. The smoke just lets you know the AOS is bad and it is time to call the auto club to send a flat bed truck to pick up the car and haul it to the shop for AOS replacement.
Another problem area that is in some ways unique to these cars is the body water drains. For whichever car you buy you need to inspect these before you buy to confirm they are free of trash (mainly plant litter) build up and the cabin has *not* experienced any water intrusion and after you buy keep these drains free of trash build up.
Also, you need to check the door bottoms, the carpets, after a wash or rain for any signs of moisture. The doors have a dry and wet side and the two sides are separated by a membrane. Over time this membrane can fail and let water from the wet side over into the dry side. If this happens window/door lock electrical gremlins can and will occur and if the water in the door not dealt with promptly cause other problems. There is the risk the water can leak into the cabin and if this happens this can ruin the car's security module which is on the cabin floor under the driver's seat.
The radiator ducts will collect trash. With the radiator fans running these cars just hoover up anything that gets near the radiator duct openings and this gets caught at the condensor or between the condensor and the radiator. Periodically this trash needs to be removed.
The Boxster has been a reliable car over the years. Things have worn out but as it has covered a lot of miles this is to be expected.
The basic engine, drivetrain, including the clutch (believe it or not), are still just fine. The CV boots tore and I had the CV bearings cleaned/repacked and these are fine now. So the drivetrain is original albeit the CV bearings received some attention.
So in buying a good example, and with proper serivicing, and care and with some empathy for the car and engine and with some luck I would expect you would experience much the same with a Boxster, a Cayman or a 996.
It comes down to which car do you want.
Let me add my two cents...
The Boxster is a pretty rigid car. If you really want the air through the hair experience then get the Boxster and enjoy the superb road manners and handling even when pushing the car.
You need to be sure you want the top down experience. The top will at some point leak or the hardware wear out.
After owning a Boxster for a number of years and putting over 315K miles on it (almost all with the top up I might add) and a 996 (Turbo) since June 2009 (and putting over 140K miles on it) maintenance wise the cars are very similar at least regarding scheduled maintenance. Oil/filter, air filter, brake fluid (and for manuals clutch fluid), transmission fluid services are the "same", that is occur at the same number of miles or after the same amount of time.
'course, the same service for my Turbo costs more than for my Boxster. The difference between a 986/987 vs. a 996 (NA car) would be I would guess be in favor of the 986/987 but not by much and probably not by enough to be a factor.
Feel compelled to say this: If the few dollars difference in servicing is a big concern then neither car is probably for you.
This is not intended as some kind of slam towards you. These cars are quite expensive to buy when new. Used while they cost less the cost to service/maintain them the way they should be serviced/maintained doesn't get any less expensive. While one doesn't need Bill Gates money these are not cars to buy and expected to be enjoyed and operated on a tight or limited budget.
Certainly if one is able to he can do some things and save some money, at least labor costs.
Can't help you regarding the iMS question regarding costs.
For warranty questions you'll have to speak to the company that offers the warranty to find out what the presence of an aftermarket IMSB solution/fix does to the warranty. More than speak with the company, get the agreement's fine print and read it 3 times. It is what is in the fine print the company will do not what someone tells you over the phone. 'course if you hear over the phone the IMSB voids the warranty you can save yourself the trouble of reading the fine print.
Off hand I'd have to say the presence of an IMSB upgrade brings into question the warranty at least on the engine.
If the transmission dies that's probably a claim the warranthy company would honor.
But if the engine dies the warranty company could use the presence of a non-factory engine modification to deny the claim.
These cars are just well, cars, and are prone to the problems all cars are prone to. Ignoring wear items, though with enough miles all items are wear items, there is the water pump, fuel pump. Ignition switches have been known to wear out. And over a large enough sample of vehicles, any and all of the engine subsystems can act up. I'm talking about the starter, alternator, MAF, E-Gas (pedal), throttle body. O2 sensors are wear items but when they'll wear out depends.
Inside the various brake/clutch light and interlock/safety switches can and do wear out. Both window regulators in my Boxster wore out and were replaced along with other interior door hardware, like door lock controller, door latch switches and both door membranes. (More on this below.)
A real common problem and one not generally found with other cars is the AOS. My Boxster has been through 3 of these. The Turbo engine doesn't have the problematic AOS but the Cayman and 996 do have the problematic AOS.
When the AOS goes bad you really get little warning but you do get a some kind of clear indication -- billowing clouds of oil smoke from the exhaust -- that the AOS is bad.
At this point you can't continue to use the car, even run the engine, in this case. The smoke just lets you know the AOS is bad and it is time to call the auto club to send a flat bed truck to pick up the car and haul it to the shop for AOS replacement.
Another problem area that is in some ways unique to these cars is the body water drains. For whichever car you buy you need to inspect these before you buy to confirm they are free of trash (mainly plant litter) build up and the cabin has *not* experienced any water intrusion and after you buy keep these drains free of trash build up.
Also, you need to check the door bottoms, the carpets, after a wash or rain for any signs of moisture. The doors have a dry and wet side and the two sides are separated by a membrane. Over time this membrane can fail and let water from the wet side over into the dry side. If this happens window/door lock electrical gremlins can and will occur and if the water in the door not dealt with promptly cause other problems. There is the risk the water can leak into the cabin and if this happens this can ruin the car's security module which is on the cabin floor under the driver's seat.
The radiator ducts will collect trash. With the radiator fans running these cars just hoover up anything that gets near the radiator duct openings and this gets caught at the condensor or between the condensor and the radiator. Periodically this trash needs to be removed.
The Boxster has been a reliable car over the years. Things have worn out but as it has covered a lot of miles this is to be expected.
The basic engine, drivetrain, including the clutch (believe it or not), are still just fine. The CV boots tore and I had the CV bearings cleaned/repacked and these are fine now. So the drivetrain is original albeit the CV bearings received some attention.
So in buying a good example, and with proper serivicing, and care and with some empathy for the car and engine and with some luck I would expect you would experience much the same with a Boxster, a Cayman or a 996.
It comes down to which car do you want.
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zagamuffin (11-14-2020)
10-16-2017, 03:19 AM
#5
How important is the top down experience?
If you get a 986 you'll need to do the "Boxster chop" unless a previous owner was kind enough to convert to glass.
A high mileage car will likely not be an IMS problem. Watch out for the low mileage "driven to church on Sunday" cars.
Macster provides good guidance for you.
If you get a 986 you'll need to do the "Boxster chop" unless a previous owner was kind enough to convert to glass.
A high mileage car will likely not be an IMS problem. Watch out for the low mileage "driven to church on Sunday" cars.
Macster provides good guidance for you.
10-16-2017, 07:23 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
Thank you all for the comprehensive replies.
As it will be strictly weekend fun toy, I do value top down experience, but not at the expense of driving joy.
The Cayman I am eyeing has PDK (2011) and all recent goodies
but the other two are MT and one of the latest productions of respective era.
Regular maintenance cost isn't an issue. I am just hoping for a car that doesn't eat $$ like E60 M5 does.
I did factor in IMS bearing and all the wear items - discs, pads, pulleys, pumps etc-
but the cars I am looking for is around 10-40k miles which gets me concerned on DFW01TT's comment.
What can go wrong other than clogging/sludge for these "driven to church" cars?
Also, I've noticed that some 996s have "sport package" with LSD advertised.
Is this clutch pack LSD or Torsen from the factory?
As it will be strictly weekend fun toy, I do value top down experience, but not at the expense of driving joy.
The Cayman I am eyeing has PDK (2011) and all recent goodies
but the other two are MT and one of the latest productions of respective era.
I did factor in IMS bearing and all the wear items - discs, pads, pulleys, pumps etc-
but the cars I am looking for is around 10-40k miles which gets me concerned on DFW01TT's comment.
What can go wrong other than clogging/sludge for these "driven to church" cars?
Also, I've noticed that some 996s have "sport package" with LSD advertised.
Is this clutch pack LSD or Torsen from the factory?
10-21-2017, 04:12 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
The Cayman would be (and is) my first choice for track and spirited road driving with the 996 being in second place.
However if I was limited to only one Porsche it would have to be a convertible as I love the top down open air experience that only a cab provides.
I personally changed from a 996 cab to a 987.2 Boxster because I enjoy the mid engine car’s handling better. The 996 was a better grand tourer and more comfortable to take on extended trips and I do miss that.
So to my way of thinking you should decide between cab or coupe first and then decide 986, 996, or 987.
However if I was limited to only one Porsche it would have to be a convertible as I love the top down open air experience that only a cab provides.
I personally changed from a 996 cab to a 987.2 Boxster because I enjoy the mid engine car’s handling better. The 996 was a better grand tourer and more comfortable to take on extended trips and I do miss that.
So to my way of thinking you should decide between cab or coupe first and then decide 986, 996, or 987.
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10-25-2017, 06:10 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
I would think if you are looking at an '11 Cayman, you could probably find a 987 Boxster S for a similar price? I believe 06 and later had the IMS dealt with.
I'd bet you could find an 07 or 08, possibly even an RS60 which would be incredible for roughly the same price as a non-S 2011 PDK?
I haven't look much, but seems like the difference in years would be an equalizer on price...
But I've been wrong before!
I'd bet you could find an 07 or 08, possibly even an RS60 which would be incredible for roughly the same price as a non-S 2011 PDK?
I haven't look much, but seems like the difference in years would be an equalizer on price...
But I've been wrong before!
11-30-2017, 08:01 PM
#12
Not.
The '06+ seems to be the least susceptible (1% vs 5% or thereabouts IIRC), but it is still a potential issue.
And the bugger is that the upgrade is not really feasible - you have to split the engine to replace the IMS bearing or do an upgrade to it, as opposed to the earlier engines where you "only" have to separate the trans from the engine...
The '06+ seems to be the least susceptible (1% vs 5% or thereabouts IIRC), but it is still a potential issue.
And the bugger is that the upgrade is not really feasible - you have to split the engine to replace the IMS bearing or do an upgrade to it, as opposed to the earlier engines where you "only" have to separate the trans from the engine...
12-04-2017, 01:08 PM
#14
Porsche Nut
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I would think if you are looking at an '11 Cayman, you could probably find a 987 Boxster S for a similar price? I believe 06 and later had the IMS dealt with.
I'd bet you could find an 07 or 08, possibly even an RS60 which would be incredible for roughly the same price as a non-S 2011 PDK?
I haven't look much, but seems like the difference in years would be an equalizer on price...
But I've been wrong before!
I'd bet you could find an 07 or 08, possibly even an RS60 which would be incredible for roughly the same price as a non-S 2011 PDK?
I haven't look much, but seems like the difference in years would be an equalizer on price...
But I've been wrong before!
12-05-2017, 12:08 AM
#15
Rennlist Member
^This. If you are going to the track, the 9A1 is a much better unit. A 2.9 Cayman has the brakes from the Boxster S, and is nearly as fast.
