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Cayman 981s vs. 718

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Old 01-14-2018, 12:01 PM
  #106  
K-A
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Sports cars being built for China will/have been the worst thing to happen to sports cars (no coincidence, as sales drop in non-China markets).

Fast, efficient, small CI, lousy sounding turbocharged soulless computers on wheels.

Sports cars were never about fastest performance times that no one will get near exploiting on public roads. It’s aleays been about how it makes you feel while you drive, hear, and look at it.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:47 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by K-A
Sports cars being built for China will/have been the worst thing to happen to sports cars (no coincidence, as sales drop in non-China markets). Fast, efficient, small CI, lousy sounding turbocharged soulless computers on wheels. Sports cars were never about fastest performance times that no one will get near exploiting on public roads. It’s aleays been about how it makes you feel while you drive, hear, and look at it.

+1. I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the rumors and reports surrounding the upcoming mid-engine Corvette. If (a) they sell it at a halfway-reasonable price; (b) they don't screw up the powertrain or interior too badly; and (c) they don't let the guy who penned the Pontiac Aztek design the rear end like they did last time, then they will own their market segment in the US, if for no other reason than by default.

If that happens, Porsche can stop bothering trying to sell the Cayman and Boxster here, and cut their 992 allocations substantially as well. They will have finally succeeded in their long quest to give away their share of the US sports car market.

Good luck in China, meine Damen und Herren. Hope it lasts.

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Old 01-14-2018, 10:33 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Noah Fect




+1. I'm starting to pay a lot of attention to the rumors and reports surrounding the upcoming mid-engine Corvette. If (a) they sell it at a halfway-reasonable price; (b) they don't screw up the powertrain or interior too badly; and (c) they don't let the guy who penned the Pontiac Aztek design the rear end like they did last time, then they will own their market segment in the US, if for no other reason than by default.

If that happens, Porsche can stop bothering trying to sell the Cayman and Boxster here, and cut their 992 allocations substantially as well. They will have finally succeeded in their long quest to give away their share of the US sports car market.

Good luck in China, meine Damen und Herren. Hope it lasts.

The speculation I've read is that the mid engined Vette will cost north of $100K.
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Old 01-16-2018, 07:50 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by MidEngineRules
- I very much want the 718 to be very successful for Porsche and I'm glad it's being purchased and looked upon enthusiastically by owners and others. I want the Boxster/Cayman platform to continue as its heritage is deep in Porsche's past when their mid-engine cars ruled endurance racing. Porsche took great risk by moving to a 4 cylinder engine so I hope it pans out. I don't like words like better or superior as they don't really say anything but most often come across as diatribe. Journalists seem to be the ones who usually try to express small incremental change as significant leaps and it usually falls very short of real world differences.
- I'm perplexed as to why there is no X73 suspension option for the 718. While Porsche and owners can claim the 718 suspension is improved (base to base), they aren't making that claim against X73 equipped 981s (or 987s for that matter). For those who love PASM and have never driven an X73 equipped 987 or 981, you have no idea what you're missing. The X73 option transforms the platform, far more so than differences a higher performing tire can make. Perfectly balanced setup with no ill manners, and no button to push. Best OEM suspension I've ever used in the real world. X73 was an option and can still be retrofitted to base 981 Boxsters/Caymans for not a lot of money. There's no wonder why Porsche made it the only suspension option (and a standard feature) for the most special Boxster/Cayman offerings to date such as the Boxster Spyders (987 and 981) and the Cayman R.
- The argument of wanting increased low end engine torque is not necessarily valid to me. If you think you don't have enough low end torque for a given situation you're probably driving in the wrong gear for the situation. Force is the measure of acceleration, which is gear multiplied engine torque transmitted to the ground, not engine torque alone. Driven correctly any NA Porsche has more than enough Force on tap to meet the demands in a speed constrained street environment. And during spirited driving, aside from initial inertia are you ever in the low range of rpms so the 718's "more low end torque" becomes relevant? Midrange and upper end power is the real heartbeat of the motor and where the reward lies. I've only owned 300+ hp Boxsters/Cayman but never once have I thought the low end torque was inadequate. Change those gears! In fact, it was my first drive in a friend's 987 base Boxster that made me rethink why I owned a 997 Carrera S. I was amazed at how well the 987 base cornered compared to my much more powerful 997S (with PASM!). And I thought the acceleration was impressive for a sub 300 hp car. Again, be in the right gear and you will be rewarded. If you feel you need to drive in high gears at low speeds and have hard acceleration on tap in gear, I question why you enjoy driving a sports car outside of the aesthetic.
- What I like most about the 718 is that Porsche opened up the color pallet a bit, and the rear end of the 718 is better looking than the 981 especially in terms of rear spoiler integration and taillights. Having LED headlights is also a plus and looks nice. What I find odd about the 718's exterior styling is why Porsche seems to be flattening the front deck by removing the fender curves which are almost non-existent now. The 987 curves headlight to taillight were perfection and with the 981, Porsche squared off the top of them which took me a while to come to grips with. The wonderful curves of the 987 are almost completely gone with the 718. I fear for the next generation in terms of styling. Hopefully they won't go near the look of the 911 slant nose.
- Enjoy what you like. All Boxsters/Caymans are superb to drive. Realize there's lot of options and differences within each generation and not all newer specifications are necessarily a step up comparatively. My beloved Cayman R was a very rewarding drive. It took the 2016 Spyder for me to let go of it. As a twice former 997 Carrera S owner, I always wondered what the 3.8 would be like in a Boxster/Cayman, not for additional low end torque but for the high end punch. Now I think I have the best of both worlds and have no plan to let go of my Spyder regardless of what Porsche comes out with next.
The engine noise argument is legit, at least for the Boxster/Cayman since the motor is inches from the occupants. Not sure I could knowingly give up that high rpm howl. Even my 2008 RS60 Spyder had an incredible engine noise at full throttle.
Cheers!
MIdEngine Rules - "What I find odd about the 718's exterior styling is why Porsche seems to be flattening the front deck by removing the fender curves which are almost non-existent now. The 987 curves headlight to taillight were perfection and with the 981, Porsche squared off the top of them which took me a while to come to grips with. The wonderful curves of the 987 are almost completely gone with the 718. I fear for the next generation in terms of styling."

I couldn't agree with you more about the front fender creases on the Boxster/ Cayman, that first appeared in 2013, when the redesigned 987 became the 981. Since then, I have not been able to wrap my brain around those creases. I cannot believe Porsche chose to make changes to those iconic bubble shaped fenders. And the creases are more pronounced in the 718. Approximately 1 inch deep on the 981, and 1.5 inches deep and the 718. I realize it may seem crazy to most, but this look is sadly, a deal breaker for me. I recently drove the 718 S and absolutely loved it's performance. But those fenders... The 911 fenders remain the same as always... Gorgeous bubble look....
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:11 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by anthonyf202
MIdEngine Rules - "What I find odd about the 718's exterior styling is why Porsche seems to be flattening the front deck by removing the fender curves which are almost non-existent now. The 987 curves headlight to taillight were perfection and with the 981, Porsche squared off the top of them which took me a while to come to grips with. The wonderful curves of the 987 are almost completely gone with the 718. I fear for the next generation in terms of styling."

I couldn't agree with you more about the front fender creases on the Boxster/ Cayman, that first appeared in 2013, when the redesigned 987 became the 981. Since then, I have not been able to wrap my brain around those creases. I cannot believe Porsche chose to make changes to those iconic bubble shaped fenders. And the creases are more pronounced in the 718. Approximately 1 inch deep on the 981, and 1.5 inches deep and the 718. I realize it may seem crazy to most, but this look is sadly, a deal breaker for me. I recently drove the 718 S and absolutely loved it's performance. But those fenders... The 911 fenders remain the same as always... Gorgeous bubble look....
Also, the 718 front bumper is a nondescript bland disaster, imo. Why it’s so square and boxy is beyond me. The 981 front bumper is gorgeously organic, smooth and flowing with the rest of the design. Much more sporty to me.
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:54 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by K-A
Also, the 718 front bumper is a nondescript bland disaster, imo. Why it’s so square and boxy is beyond me. The 981 front bumper is gorgeously organic, smooth and flowing with the rest of the design. Much more sporty to me.
The LED strip on the 718 does look better though, IMO. Moot point if you have a 981 Boxster.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:56 PM
  #112  
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this thread makes me want to take my car out for a joy ride after work
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:20 AM
  #113  
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I drove a base 718 the other day, and it felt faster, more compliant, and sharper than my 981S. I don't even mind the sound that much.

However, the turbo lag is really a killer. I'd much rather have the immediate response than the neck-jerking acceleration that kicks in about a second after you step on the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of the 718's looks, either. The side intake vents are much uglier with the two-splitter design, and the taillights are pretty atrocious, but these things are subjective, and I can hardly claim to have good taste.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:14 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by mli
I drove a base 718 the other day, and it felt faster, more compliant, and sharper than my 981S. I don't even mind the sound that much.

However, the turbo lag is really a killer. I'd much rather have the immediate response than the neck-jerking acceleration that kicks in about a second after you step on the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of the 718's looks, either. The side intake vents are much uglier with the two-splitter design, and the taillights are pretty atrocious, but these things are subjective, and I can hardly claim to have good taste.
Funny, I hardly notice any turbo lag and everything you say you dislike about the looks of the 718, I like....and I do claim to have good taste.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:39 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by mli
I drove a base 718 the other day, and it felt faster, more compliant, and sharper than my 981S. I don't even mind the sound that much.

However, the turbo lag is really a killer. I'd much rather have the immediate response than the neck-jerking acceleration that kicks in about a second after you step on the throttle.

I'm not a huge fan of the 718's looks, either. The side intake vents are much uglier with the two-splitter design, and the taillights are pretty atrocious, but these things are subjective, and I can hardly claim to have good taste.
I was able to detect lag on the base, but not on the S. Your aesthetic criticisms are extreme IMO, but as you state it's subjective. I have no problem with the 718 aesthetics. It's one of the best looking cars in the Porsche lineup IMO.
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Old 01-28-2018, 04:59 AM
  #116  
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I definitely noticed lag on the 718 S. It’s slight, for a turbo, but if you’re acclimated to the immediacy of N/A (or even just sensitive to turbo lag at all), you’ll feel it. It IS there, factually speaking. “No turbo lag” is a marketing fallacy. “Less turbo lag” is a fundamental reality.
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Old 01-30-2018, 12:33 AM
  #117  
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Yeah, I've read that the 718S has less lag. I think I'm just used to the instantaneous response of the flat 6, and it's turned me into a bit of a control freak. Really looking forward to trying a 718GTS someday; the black trim is more attractive to my eyes.

I'm just surprised that the base 718 has better performance than the 981S in nearly every dimension by a non-trivial margin.
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Old 01-30-2018, 01:44 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by mli
I'm just surprised that the base 718 has better performance than the 981S in nearly every dimension by a non-trivial margin.
What? They are very similar, with perhaps a slight edge to the 981S.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/azoln0lilgn7
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:26 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Dr.Bill
What? They are very similar, with perhaps a slight edge to the 981S.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/azoln0lilgn7
How do you do that comparison thing (choose a car vs a car) with Fastestlaps?
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Old 01-30-2018, 08:43 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Dr.Bill
What? They are very similar, with perhaps a slight edge to the 981S.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/azoln0lilgn7
Look at those numbers closely. They don't add up. The 718 shows as being 269 pounds heavier with 25 less BHP and 7 ft pounds more torque.
No doubt a 981S vs the 718S the 718S should be faster. But I think we need a better source for performance figures.
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