THE 3.0 Liter Turbo Thread
01-10-2005, 12:06 PM
#76
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Check you facts before you start critisizing someone next time.
Raj
Raj
same parts for both tensioners??? (it can be converted but it is not the same and do not have teh same part.
As I already said. If he wants to make teh conversion then convert it to the 968 one. It works MUCH better.
same belt covers????
Are you sure?
I waiting for an excuse. I try to help you and others and you say I give you the wrong infos?
maybe I should let you and teh others to learn it the hard way. first destroy the engine and then tell you what is wrong.
is this better?
Konstantin
01-10-2005, 12:22 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by Konstantin
helo
jay do not forget to thank raj when your motor is destroyed.
I am not sitting here to corect all his mistakes or to corect mistakes from other people but when I see that someone engine is in danger i try to help
@ Raj. a great Philosoph said
Stupid is not to make mistakes. Stupid is not to learn from your mistakes
So take your time and listen and learn
study your Porsche books check your PER and after you ask people and get the right anwers and see that even PET or the Porsche books make mistakes then you can deny my help
so for last time
the tensioners are not the same. You can easily regognize them since one has the "2V" on it and the other one has the "4V" on it
it looks the same and it fits in the car but since both cars have a different timing belt the tensioner for teh timing belt is different. We talk about this tensioner or do you mean something else?
jay do not forget to thank raj when your motor is destroyed.
I am not sitting here to corect all his mistakes or to corect mistakes from other people but when I see that someone engine is in danger i try to help
@ Raj. a great Philosoph said
Stupid is not to make mistakes. Stupid is not to learn from your mistakes
So take your time and listen and learn
study your Porsche books check your PER and after you ask people and get the right anwers and see that even PET or the Porsche books make mistakes then you can deny my help
so for last time
the tensioners are not the same. You can easily regognize them since one has the "2V" on it and the other one has the "4V" on it
it looks the same and it fits in the car but since both cars have a different timing belt the tensioner for teh timing belt is different. We talk about this tensioner or do you mean something else?
so here some detailed infos
tensioner for 951 after 87 part #
94410506714
tensioner for 944S2 after 89 part #
94410506713
thsi number has changed to 94410506715 which also cahnaged to 94410506716 which is the last and newest version for the S2
tensioner for 951 after 87 part #
94410506714
tensioner for 944S2 after 89 part #
94410506713
thsi number has changed to 94410506715 which also cahnaged to 94410506716 which is the last and newest version for the S2
Tensioner for the 968
94410517203 968 from August 91
94410517203 968 from August 91
The balansh shaft is the same in S2 and 951 but NOT the same with the 2.7 L engine
you must becarrefull as teh bearings is the same only with the later 951 and not with the one from 85 and 86
you must becarrefull as teh bearings is the same only with the later 951 and not with the one from 85 and 86
you can NOT get the covers from other cars. The covers are specific made for thsi particular engine and you MUST use the cover that came with the engine
I have four S2 engines in my garge a 968 and a couple 968 and two 2.7L and I can waranty you that the Tensiorer is NOT the same.
do you want pics?
do you want pics?
Konstantin
oh!! yes. and teh covers are NOT the same
the rear belt cover from the S2 is not the same with the 951.
oh!! yes. and teh covers are NOT the same
the rear belt cover from the S2 is not the same with the 951.
It hapens that I just finished another 3l Turbo engine that I build my self and didn't bought it ready so be sure that these infos are right otherwise I can go to my garage and give you the parts numbers.
Do NOT always believe what you here or see in the Web. Many just repeat what they hear so the mistakes are just repeated. after some time you here the wrong stuff so often and you think it is right
Do NOT always believe what you here or see in the Web. Many just repeat what they hear so the mistakes are just repeated. after some time you here the wrong stuff so often and you think it is right
I did build the belt section of my car as it just came with a block and head so I do know what I am talking about and I can post pictures as well if anyone likes.
On to you Konstantin.
Raj
01-10-2005, 12:50 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by Konstantin
this is EXACTLY what you should do before you give such infos.
same parts for both tensioners??? (it can be converted but it is not the same and do not have teh same part.
As I already said. If he wants to make teh conversion then convert it to the 968 one. It works MUCH better.
same belt covers????
same parts for both tensioners??? (it can be converted but it is not the same and do not have teh same part.
As I already said. If he wants to make teh conversion then convert it to the 968 one. It works MUCH better.
same belt covers????
You are all over the place with this. Stick to the subject and be clear next time. I am trying to help either as I have no vested interest in either way. I am not trying to sell any tensioners, just trying to help the same way you are. Remember, we are on the same side so no need to get aggressive.
Raj
01-10-2005, 01:02 PM
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are these you words? from 01-02-2005, 05:34 PM
<Ideally you want to run a 944 S2 tensioner.>
if so then you are wrong as the S2 tensioner will not work!
why is so difficult to understand?
and today you also wrote
< Today, 02:10 PM <I think you need to check your resources before you jump on this one. A 944S2 has the same tensioner as a later style 951>
As you self realised now after you saw my infos it is NOT THE SAME tensioner !!!
You must change the Roller with the one from the 951.
I also wrote if he wants to modify his S2 Tensioner so taht it fits in his new 2V engine (other wise it does NOT fit) then it is better to modify the 968 tesnioner so that it fits in his new engine.
Since he will do the work it is better to get the better part
There was not a single word from you about modification. you always say he can use the S2 or 951 tensioner and that both are the same.
come I do not have enogh time to play with you.
accept that you either gave wrongs informations or that you wrote wrong BUT do not change your posting content and do like you mean the same thing.
read you post again and you will see what you really wrote and what you mean.
I can not know what you mean I only see what you wrote and what you wrote was wrong
This is enough for me. I stop here as I have more important things. you all know what to use now an dthat an S2 tensioner is not the same as the 951 except if you modify it.
the belts are not the same and the covers are not the same either.
you must still know one thing. The spring tensioner when it is used it is NOT reliable. I checked it many times with the Porsche tool and it reads about 2.4 on a new belt.
Porsche recoments 4 on a new belt ideally would be around 3 on a used one.
you can EITHER chnage teh old spring with a new spring. OR lose the bolts. push the tensioner with a screwdriver against the belt till it is firm and then bolt the bolts. no you have around 3 with the used tensioner.
It is good if you change teh spring every 60000 miles or every 6 years.
My conections at the company who build this tensioner said that it will not work accurate for more than that.
So even with the spring tensioner always check your belt tesnion even if Porsche says no need for that.
No need with a new tensioner but if you have a used one better check.
Konstantin
<Ideally you want to run a 944 S2 tensioner.>
if so then you are wrong as the S2 tensioner will not work!
why is so difficult to understand?
and today you also wrote
< Today, 02:10 PM <I think you need to check your resources before you jump on this one. A 944S2 has the same tensioner as a later style 951>
As you self realised now after you saw my infos it is NOT THE SAME tensioner !!!
You must change the Roller with the one from the 951.
I also wrote if he wants to modify his S2 Tensioner so taht it fits in his new 2V engine (other wise it does NOT fit) then it is better to modify the 968 tesnioner so that it fits in his new engine.
Since he will do the work it is better to get the better part
There was not a single word from you about modification. you always say he can use the S2 or 951 tensioner and that both are the same.
come I do not have enogh time to play with you.
accept that you either gave wrongs informations or that you wrote wrong BUT do not change your posting content and do like you mean the same thing.
read you post again and you will see what you really wrote and what you mean.
I can not know what you mean I only see what you wrote and what you wrote was wrong
This is enough for me. I stop here as I have more important things. you all know what to use now an dthat an S2 tensioner is not the same as the 951 except if you modify it.
the belts are not the same and the covers are not the same either.
you must still know one thing. The spring tensioner when it is used it is NOT reliable. I checked it many times with the Porsche tool and it reads about 2.4 on a new belt.
Porsche recoments 4 on a new belt ideally would be around 3 on a used one.
you can EITHER chnage teh old spring with a new spring. OR lose the bolts. push the tensioner with a screwdriver against the belt till it is firm and then bolt the bolts. no you have around 3 with the used tensioner.
It is good if you change teh spring every 60000 miles or every 6 years.
My conections at the company who build this tensioner said that it will not work accurate for more than that.
So even with the spring tensioner always check your belt tesnion even if Porsche says no need for that.
No need with a new tensioner but if you have a used one better check.
Konstantin
01-10-2005, 01:12 PM
#80
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Konstantin, what you don't realize is that I had a lengthy conversation with Jay recently in which I stated that the tensioner roller would need to be changed. I don't see a need to repeat that again. The tensioner itself is the same and the roller is different. That is what I told him and that is what I wrote.
I think you are confusing the covers between an S2 and a 951. The 951 covers are a direct bolton and that is what I have been stating, when the head is swapped to a 2.7. We both have running examples of this setup. I have done it both ways, an S2 head setup for a friend and a 2.7 setup for myself so I do know 1st hand what kind of belt covers are needed for both.
If its still not clear, I can post pictures. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, just reiterating what I told Jay on the telephone.
Raj
I think you are confusing the covers between an S2 and a 951. The 951 covers are a direct bolton and that is what I have been stating, when the head is swapped to a 2.7. We both have running examples of this setup. I have done it both ways, an S2 head setup for a friend and a 2.7 setup for myself so I do know 1st hand what kind of belt covers are needed for both.
If its still not clear, I can post pictures. I am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, just reiterating what I told Jay on the telephone.
Raj
01-10-2005, 03:09 PM
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Guys....
I think we're all on the same page here. I truly appreicate the information - which is why I REALLY REALLY REALLY like Rennlist. This is what it's all about IMHO, sharing information freely so that all of us can enjoy the cars to their highest potential.
Konstantine - I apologize as I have talked with Raj extensively over the phone regarding this topic and I didn't specify what my configuration is (968 lower end with 8v 89 944 head on top).
So...
Besides me - anyone else want pics of both Raj's and Konstantine engines?
I think we're all on the same page here. I truly appreicate the information - which is why I REALLY REALLY REALLY like Rennlist. This is what it's all about IMHO, sharing information freely so that all of us can enjoy the cars to their highest potential.
Konstantine - I apologize as I have talked with Raj extensively over the phone regarding this topic and I didn't specify what my configuration is (968 lower end with 8v 89 944 head on top).
So...
Besides me - anyone else want pics of both Raj's and Konstantine engines?
Last edited by Jay Wellwood; 01-10-2005 at 03:31 PM.
01-12-2005, 06:26 PM
#82
I consider Raj and Konstantin to be very knowledgeable and appreciate their contribution to the forum. I trust any information coming from those guys and I know the intention of both is to help and bring useful and sometimes hard to get information about our cars. I believe both respect each other and that the post on this topic reflects only their commitment behind each one statement’s. Lets continue with this very interesting discussion "in peace". 
Jay:
I'll love to see pictures abouts Raj and Konstantin engines.
Jay:
I'll love to see pictures abouts Raj and Konstantin engines.
01-12-2005, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 968TurboS
The turbo S and RS heads were similar to the 2.7 head with a few differences. The intake port was round instead of oval and there were ceramic liners on the exhaust port. The ports are much smaller than a 2.7 head.
Jon Milledge ( a very well known tuner) scraps the turbo heads just for this reason. An NA head allows him to do some bench flow, port and polish work.
Chris Cervalli, whom I bought my current setup from scrapped the turbo S head for the same reason and was was able to pick 30hp just by swapping the head alone on a dyno.
01-12-2005, 11:54 PM
#84
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SW, Intake port is smaller on a turbo S head for sure.
Yes, everything else on the engine was the same. All he swapped was the head without any port work. He picked up 40hp on his own dyno and you can find his post if you do a search under his name. He did only WOT throttle runs so the differences were up top.
Do a search under 968 turbo S head and Chris cervelli and you should be able to find the info. You will also find his ad about selling a turbo RS engine which I ended up buying.
Good luck.
Raj
Yes, everything else on the engine was the same. All he swapped was the head without any port work. He picked up 40hp on his own dyno and you can find his post if you do a search under his name. He did only WOT throttle runs so the differences were up top.
Do a search under 968 turbo S head and Chris cervelli and you should be able to find the info. You will also find his ad about selling a turbo RS engine which I ended up buying.
Good luck.
Raj
01-12-2005, 11:56 PM
#85
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Turbocab, thank you. I don't claim to be the Holy grail on turbo-charging a 968. I don't gain anything by sharing this information either. I am just trying to help. I just didn't appreciate being jumped on like that. Oh well, Jay and myself have spoken since then and are on the same page.
Regards.
Raj
Regards.
Raj
01-13-2005, 01:29 AM
#86
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Ok, so shake hands and post those pictures guys... It may be as close as I get for a while now that my machine shop ruined the 968 block Raj found for me...
By the way, I vote for the old eccentric tenisoners. It's simple.
By the way, I vote for the old eccentric tenisoners. It's simple.
01-13-2005, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 968TurboS
SW, Intake port is smaller on a turbo S head for sure.
Yes, everything else on the engine was the same. All he swapped was the head without any port work. He picked up 40hp on his own dyno and you can find his post if you do a search under his name. He did only WOT throttle runs so the differences were up top.
Do a search under 968 turbo S head and Chris cervelli and you should be able to find the info. You will also find his ad about selling a turbo RS engine which I ended up buying.
Good luck.
Raj
Good luck.
Raj
01-13-2005, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom M'Guinn
Ok, so shake hands and post those pictures guys... It may be as close as I get for a while now that my machine shop ruined the 968 block Raj found for me...
Holy crap! You gotta be kidding! What happened? Do tell as I'm about ready to get my block to a shop for a little work.
02-04-2005, 01:34 AM
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Here's a stupid question:
Does a 2.7 8v head flow better than a 3.0 16v head???
Why use a 2.7 head?
A 2.7 head flows better than a 951 head, yes, but does it flow better than a 16v head?
NO!
Downgrade to upgrade, I don't understand it!
How about just lowering the compression and installing some heavy duty valves in the 16v head, or ceramic coat the combustion chamber and piston tops on the 968?......................
Does a 2.7 8v head flow better than a 3.0 16v head???
Why use a 2.7 head?
A 2.7 head flows better than a 951 head, yes, but does it flow better than a 16v head?
NO!
Downgrade to upgrade, I don't understand it!
How about just lowering the compression and installing some heavy duty valves in the 16v head, or ceramic coat the combustion chamber and piston tops on the 968?......................
02-04-2005, 05:56 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by Jay Wellwood
Holy crap! You gotta be kidding! What happened? Do tell as I'm about ready to get my block to a shop for a little work.