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The ? still out there how many 91 turbos imported into the US/

Old 09-11-2007, 01:33 PM
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cobalt
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Default The ? still out there how many 91 turbos imported into the US/

So we have been going back and forth over the total number of 91 turbos made. I think we need to have a dedicated thread to determine what the true number is.

The big name authors including Adrian claim 1992 units made to US spec yet serial numbers listed only show 674.

So the first person to verify they have or have seen a Vin number over 674 for a 1991 turbo US spec wins. We need proof of the vin number in some way to make it official.

The grand prize is the satisfaction of knowing you unraveled the dilemma for all of us and will be held in deep regard.

Thanks
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:33 AM
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Default Could he

be in error ???......There were only 2,298 ROW 965s in the 1991 model year plus the 674 NA 965s

I did notice that there were exactly 1992 ROW Carrera RS units spread over 1991 and 1992.....

I know a gentleman who retired from PCNA last year....he usually is up to speed on this era and Porsche sold in NA....I will email him and pose the question and let you know if he has verified data.

Last edited by Berkley; 09-12-2007 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 09-12-2007, 09:32 AM
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al 965
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I guess the question is not out there anymore.
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Old 09-12-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
be in error ???......There were only 2,298 ROW 965s in the 1991 model year plus the 674 NA 965s

I did notice that there were exactly 1992 ROW Carrera RS units spread over 1991 and 1992.....

I know a gentleman who retired from PCNA last year....he usually is up to speed on this era and Porsche sold in NA....I email him and pose the question
Adrian did a fabulous job with his 964 companion book. There were some minor errors but there is a lot to decipher and Porsche does not make it easy. Originally he had 754 US 94 turbos adding the 266 M718 coded '93's double. He realized his mistake and published an amendment. While speaking to him about this I recall him being confident the rest of his numbers were correct and he gave me a valid argument but that was years ago and my memory isn't what it used to be, although at the time he convinced me 1992 was correct.

The reason I have not been able to verify the 91's is because I have 3 other reputable sources confirming his number of 1992 US 91's.

Paul Frere on the other hand has the numbers all out of whack stating a total of 1,104 1991-1992 for the entire production and 5,323 total for the 94's if anything this is reversed but still incorrect. I have no idea how many were actually made but the majority of the community has always used the 1992 US 91's as the accurate number. If we can find a vin number in the 700's than that would answer a lot of questions but to date I have not come across one.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:25 AM
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Hello,
Thanks Amthony for kicking this subject off... Ours is number 528 produced in May of '91. That being the case, Porsche would have had to produce some 1400+ turbo cars in the following few months prior to the MY '92 production start-up. I'm sure they could have done that but, I'll be surprised if they actually did.
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Old 09-13-2007, 08:20 PM
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Little Red Book -

8/90 - 7/91 Turbo US - 674
8/91 - 7/92 Turbo US - 309
8/91 - 7/92 Carerra RS - 1992
8/93 - 12/93 Turbo US - 466
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:56 PM
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I have #304 she was built 7th March 1991, so that 224 between mine and gr1275. But the assembly line is making ROW cars also so unless the vin# are totaly different its hard to extrapolate.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Flachbau View Post
Little Red Book -

8/90 - 7/91 Turbo US - 674
8/91 - 7/92 Turbo US - 309
8/91 - 7/92 Carerra RS - 1992
8/93 - 12/93 Turbo US - 466
8/90 - 7/91 Turbo US - 480001-0674
8/90 - 7/91 Turbo ROW - 470001-2298
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:43 PM
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8/91 -7/92 - 470001 - 0836 ROW - TURBO 8/91 -7/92 - 480001 - 0309 US - TURBO CARRERA RS PRODUCED 1,992 CARRERA RS AMERICA Procuced 298 (PORSCHE 911 RED BOOK 1965- 2005)
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:05 AM
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Certainly looks a lot less than was thought. That 1992 number for US turbo production does seem odd.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:34 AM
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Based on the numbers presented here, it appears the probability of a 674 number is far greater than that of a 1992 production number.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:48 AM
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Porsche did not get to where they are today by being dumb a%@es.According to Porsche, and Porsche N.A. (which some on this site reguard as un reliable), they were aware of the Energy crunch and the U.S. economy back in 91 & 92. That being the low production #. They did not want to produce cars they could not sell! Porsche N.A. records show for the 309 U.S. cars produced in 92 that 287 of them actually went to U.S. dealers and the 22 remaining cars went to other N.A markets, such as Canada, Mexico. ect.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Flachbau View Post
Little Red Book -

8/90 - 7/91 Turbo US - 674
8/91 - 7/92 Turbo US - 309
8/91 - 7/92 Carerra RS - 1992
8/93 - 12/93 Turbo US - 466
Mark, I don't see the 1993 (8/93-12/93) numbers you posted in my copy of that book 1965-2005 second edition.
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Old 09-14-2007, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by al 965 View Post
Porsche did not get to where they are today by being dumb a%@es.According to Porsche, and Porsche N.A. (which some on this site reguard as un reliable), they were aware of the Energy crunch and the U.S. economy back in 91 & 92. That being the low production #. They did not want to produce cars they could not sell! Porsche N.A. records show for the 309 U.S. cars produced in 92 that 287 of them actually went to U.S. dealers and the 22 remaining cars went to other N.A markets, such as Canada, Mexico. ect.
There is dispute over this too. There are the 20 turbo S's built by Andial that are included in the 309-92's. And yes PCNA has been known to give out more disinformation than information. I had inquired about several things from PCNA and every time the info was completely incorrect. I was also told by PCNA that there is no way of telling what US spec cars ended up in the US. Many might have been shipped elsewhere this includes all models so the numbers we are talking about could be far less in the US than these numbers imply

So I have 3 reliable sources possibly using the RS numbers for the 91 turbos and I need to double check the RS numbers but they have it listed as much less. Will check when I have a chance but it would be interesting to see what they have listed for the RS's. Although, for a car not imported to the US and appears to be rather rare and exceedingly valuable 1992 seems way to high a production number.
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Old 09-14-2007, 03:16 PM
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I couldn't find a listing for any RS cars in 91 year model . They do show 120 carrera cup cars 499001-409120sn cars . In 92 year model they show 290 Carrera RS Competion cars. And also 112 Carrera Cup cars
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