Starts then stalls - after car wash - car is in a show tomorrow and won't start :/
10-29-2018, 07:17 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes the car drove perfectly well Friday after all my work (valve adjust, new alternator, all new temp senders/switches), multiple starts and stops and traffic and the rest. Then Saturday, started fine to back out of garage and position where I do car washes. After wash = start, stall. Start, stall. 24 hours later, start, stall. 48 hours later, start, stall. Was hoping whatever was wet would dry out and work again. Pulled the IC and checked all wire connectors for moisture inside, none found. Checked all vacuum lines (replaced all those too before Friday great running), all connections still firmly in place. Could something invisible cracked from the cool water maybe? Somewhere invisible on the intake? Would a cracked intake tube cause this start, stall?
I didn't even open the engine lid before the wash, so I couldn't have changed anything. She was awesome driving around Friday. Dead after car wash Saturday. I was very light with the water, the motor was not soaked, just the usual dripping down through the IC. I do not wash classics often to keep corrosion to a minimum and never drive them in rain, maybe wash only twice a year. This was show-prep, so I wanted her perfect.
No or minimal fuel smell when cranking. Fires up on all cylinders for a second, then stalls. When cranking a long time, occasional fires but nothing really getting the motor off the starter. If I wait longer between attempts, she runs for a second again and stalls. If I try again right away, doesn't really start, just sputters some.
If I try with fuel pump relay removed, what does that show? If there is absolutely no start that way, then I know my pumps are working? This is why I am trying to sort all possible sources of a signal to not deliver fuel. Boost safety, crank sensor, what else? Is there a way to bypass these for testing?
Re the comment that WUR could have spontaneously gone bad - I shall try that test as well (holding the air meter open to start), does this show whether or not the WUR has failed?
Are there other tests I should do? Tried unplugging oxy sensor, start/stall behaved the same.
I didn't even open the engine lid before the wash, so I couldn't have changed anything. She was awesome driving around Friday. Dead after car wash Saturday. I was very light with the water, the motor was not soaked, just the usual dripping down through the IC. I do not wash classics often to keep corrosion to a minimum and never drive them in rain, maybe wash only twice a year. This was show-prep, so I wanted her perfect.
No or minimal fuel smell when cranking. Fires up on all cylinders for a second, then stalls. When cranking a long time, occasional fires but nothing really getting the motor off the starter. If I wait longer between attempts, she runs for a second again and stalls. If I try again right away, doesn't really start, just sputters some.
If I try with fuel pump relay removed, what does that show? If there is absolutely no start that way, then I know my pumps are working? This is why I am trying to sort all possible sources of a signal to not deliver fuel. Boost safety, crank sensor, what else? Is there a way to bypass these for testing?
Re the comment that WUR could have spontaneously gone bad - I shall try that test as well (holding the air meter open to start), does this show whether or not the WUR has failed?
Are there other tests I should do? Tried unplugging oxy sensor, start/stall behaved the same.
10-29-2018, 11:47 PM
#17
My car did exactly the same thing. Was not after washing, but exact same issues.
I was at Werks reunion and it died right at the front of the stage .
Ran into a man named LouVerdiales. He got it running in about 10 minutes. They call him the Turbo Whisperer.
He can be found in Panorama magazine in the technical committee section at Tech Q&A.
I think he's in Orlando , but his phone # and email is in magazine.
Mike
I was at Werks reunion and it died right at the front of the stage .
Ran into a man named LouVerdiales. He got it running in about 10 minutes. They call him the Turbo Whisperer.
He can be found in Panorama magazine in the technical committee section at Tech Q&A.
I think he's in Orlando , but his phone # and email is in magazine.
Mike
10-30-2018, 12:17 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
I still think its has gone lean, my buddy's 930 did the same thing for no reason, I gave him the same advise ant it worked, if you don't want to test it as suggested that's fine. Then grab your 3mm allen wrench and turn you AFR idle adjuster plunger and turn it 1/4 turn to the right ( more fuel ) What can it hurt
Good luck
Good luck
10-30-2018, 12:24 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Well, then if its not the flywheel sensor (you guys are right in that it looks like it should be fine on that end), as long as the other end of that wire (which bolts in near the flywheel) is not corrupt,....
then I will put my vote in with BadBoys1 and agree that it might be the WUR. Have you tried that yet?
This is frustrating,... and bummed that it was the night before your show. That sucks.
=Steve
then I will put my vote in with BadBoys1 and agree that it might be the WUR. Have you tried that yet?
This is frustrating,... and bummed that it was the night before your show. That sucks.
=Steve
10-30-2018, 01:05 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks guys - I will do these exams / tests for sure. I’m not sure how to test the WUR - is that tested by pushing the air meter manually to see if she’ll run? I’ve read so many threads, makes me feel like it could be anything...will search later on how to test WUR also. Ordered fuel pressure test kit from HF. Is there a good AFR/CO test kit? Or maybe I shouldn't mess with that and if it needs to be tweaked to get running, find someone with a dyno and the meters nearby to really dial it in correctly.
Oh and my battery drain thread issue of the switch sucking power - that’s the thermo-time switch. Should it “switch off” and stop drawing power some moments after the motor is switched off? Is it a loud click on your cars?
Oh and my battery drain thread issue of the switch sucking power - that’s the thermo-time switch. Should it “switch off” and stop drawing power some moments after the motor is switched off? Is it a loud click on your cars?
Last edited by wicks; 10-30-2018 at 04:36 PM.
10-30-2018, 03:37 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Do you remember what he did to get it running???
My car did exactly the same thing. Was not after washing, but exact same issues.
I was at Werks reunion and it died right at the front of the stage .
Ran into a man named LouVerdiales. He got it running in about 10 minutes. They call him the Turbo Whisperer.
He can be found in Panorama magazine in the technical committee section at Tech Q&A.
I think he's in Orlando , but his phone # and email is in magazine.
Mike
I was at Werks reunion and it died right at the front of the stage .
Ran into a man named LouVerdiales. He got it running in about 10 minutes. They call him the Turbo Whisperer.
He can be found in Panorama magazine in the technical committee section at Tech Q&A.
I think he's in Orlando , but his phone # and email is in magazine.
Mike
10-30-2018, 08:59 PM
#23
Wicks,
He did exactly what Heliolps said.
Took a 3 mm allen wrench out gave it a 1/4 turn ...and started right up.
He first checked for spark , then fuel pumps and then pulled out a small leather pouch with a few small tools and took allen wrench , spent a minute in engine compartment , then said OK start it up.
I was like....SURE. Damn thing fired right up. I bought him and his whole family dinner. I still think I got off cheap.
What are the chances that I meet this man at an event with several hundred people and he could perform magic.
Mike
He did exactly what Heliolps said.
Took a 3 mm allen wrench out gave it a 1/4 turn ...and started right up.
He first checked for spark , then fuel pumps and then pulled out a small leather pouch with a few small tools and took allen wrench , spent a minute in engine compartment , then said OK start it up.
I was like....SURE. Damn thing fired right up. I bought him and his whole family dinner. I still think I got off cheap.
What are the chances that I meet this man at an event with several hundred people and he could perform magic.
Mike
10-30-2018, 11:46 PM
#25
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Rest assured it's not your EZ69.....when it goes its terminal and there is no start at all.....hope you get her running for the show....also hope you don't have to relay on Porsche classic.....pretty hopeless given our collective low production numbers.....
10-31-2018, 12:52 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That is GREAT to hear. Now I know it's Halloween, so I must say this is no joke. When I turn the ignition on and push down the airflow plate, it sounds like STRANGER THINGS or THE SHINING. Please let me know if this sound means something (VIDEO BELOW, TURN SOUND ON PLS). The Plate does seem harder to press down than before...with fuel pumps on and off.
On a couple of the quick other tests:
NO CHANGE>> I bet if you disconnect the cold start injector it won't start at all. Quick access is to disconnect the thermo time switch, since it's up front. It acts as the ground path for the cold start injector.
AIR METER MAKES CRAZY SOUND, CAR FIRES MORE, BUT STILL STALLS OUT>> Start while holding air meter plate down an inch
NO CHANGE>> Turn mixture 1/4 turn clockwise
WON'T START AT ALL>> Start with fuel pump relay pulled
VERY SOLID CONDITION>> Check other end of the flywheel sensor
On a couple of the quick other tests:
NO CHANGE>> I bet if you disconnect the cold start injector it won't start at all. Quick access is to disconnect the thermo time switch, since it's up front. It acts as the ground path for the cold start injector.
AIR METER MAKES CRAZY SOUND, CAR FIRES MORE, BUT STILL STALLS OUT>> Start while holding air meter plate down an inch
NO CHANGE>> Turn mixture 1/4 turn clockwise
WON'T START AT ALL>> Start with fuel pump relay pulled
VERY SOLID CONDITION>> Check other end of the flywheel sensor
Last edited by wicks; 10-31-2018 at 01:55 PM.
10-31-2018, 04:11 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That email addy for Lou bounced. Looks like it forwarded to aerodynamics213@aol.com, which bounced from AOL. Anyone got alternate email for Lou?
10-31-2018, 05:44 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Wicks
Give me call, I'll walk you through it and get you car running, I have done this before for a few people .
210-385-5778
Helio
Give me call, I'll walk you through it and get you car running, I have done this before for a few people .
210-385-5778
Helio
11-01-2018, 01:35 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
That is GREAT to hear. Now I know it's Halloween, so I must say this is no joke. When I turn the ignition on and push down the airflow plate, it sounds like STRANGER THINGS or THE SHINING. Please let me know if this sound means something (VIDEO BELOW, TURN SOUND ON PLS). The Plate does seem harder to press down than before...with fuel pumps on and off.
https://vimeo.com/298092745
On a couple of the quick other tests:
NO CHANGE>> I bet if you disconnect the cold start injector it won't start at all. Quick access is to disconnect the thermo time switch, since it's up front. It acts as the ground path for the cold start injector.
AIR METER MAKES CRAZY SOUND, CAR FIRES MORE, BUT STILL STALLS OUT>> Start while holding air meter plate down an inch
NO CHANGE>> Turn mixture 1/4 turn clockwise
WON'T START AT ALL>> Start with fuel pump relay pulled
VERY SOLID CONDITION>> Check other end of the flywheel sensor
https://vimeo.com/298092745
On a couple of the quick other tests:
NO CHANGE>> I bet if you disconnect the cold start injector it won't start at all. Quick access is to disconnect the thermo time switch, since it's up front. It acts as the ground path for the cold start injector.
AIR METER MAKES CRAZY SOUND, CAR FIRES MORE, BUT STILL STALLS OUT>> Start while holding air meter plate down an inch
NO CHANGE>> Turn mixture 1/4 turn clockwise
WON'T START AT ALL>> Start with fuel pump relay pulled
VERY SOLID CONDITION>> Check other end of the flywheel sensor
I recommend that you buy yourself a CIS gauge test kit off on Ebay and start looking at fuel pressures. You will also need a Mityvac vacuum/pressure pump to test boost fuel pressure. An LM-2 would also be helpful for checking AFR, especially idle AFR.