Megatron-UK

Hi everyone,

Long time since I posted, but I still own my 1993 3.3 Turbo, though it gets less miles on it these days than it used to.

For some time I've put off doing some of the bigger jobs as it just wasn't cost effective with the miles I was doing... but now I've come to the point where I'm seeing the dreaded rust bubbles around the front and rear screen. My car has never been a garage queen or show and shine contender, and I knew at some point one or more panels would need attention - it's been properly used in all the (crappy) weather the UK has to offer

Everyone in my family is telling me to sell the car in the current crazy air-cooled market, but I know that now with two young children running around I'll simply never be able to afford anything like this ever again... especially so since (in the UK at least) decent 964T 3.3's are 5x to 6x what I bought mine for more than a decade ago, 3.6's are just ludicrous! So, I've come to the conclusion that rather than financing a new car for myself, I'll keep driving cheap runabouts (an Alfa Mito at present!!!) for the day-to-day stuff and instead I'll try and source the money I need to lavish on the car and keep it for at least another ten years.

Here's what I have thought about doing:

- Full respray in the original black pearl metallic to tackle the front and rear screen issues and 25 years of stone chips, road debris and other minor scratches and swirls (black is *so* bad for seeing them) as well as replacing all of the exterior seals and gaskets on the car (front wings, sharks fin rubbers) all of which have dried out and/or shrunk over the years
- Replace sharks fin/arch 3M stoneguard film
- Fit front lower 'chin' spoilers, new rear chrome 'Turbo 3.6' badge (without the 3.6...)
- Replace suspension with Bilstein PSS10 coilovers and any bushes that need changing
- Swap right hand silencer with Scart Super Sound (already have headers and fabspeed decat with air injection removed - don't want g-pipe/swan neck though)
- Remove turbo cat/silencer with bypass
- Fit new exhaust tips (mine were originally black and I've repainted them several times already)
- Re-powder coat brake calipers (all of them are starting to flake off) and replace brake lines with new stainless hoses
- Get the gauges refurbished to replace the peeling warning light overlays
- Generally tidy things up like paint the lower valve covers, replace any weeping oil lines etc.

I'd also like to do some minor power upgrades - perhaps camshafts or boost upgrade and fuel regulator? The engine is strong however (75k miles), and I'd rather not open it up and start down that route until I need to (like clutch replacement time, for example).

The other thing is fitting bigger wheels and tyres - I'm still on the original 17" Cup wheels with the 205 and 255 tyres. I'd like to go to 18", but don't want to try and make it out to be a 3.6 copy, so would probably go with BBS rims, rather than Speedline-alikes. Is there a guide for what sizes and offsets are needed for the 3.3 suspension and trailing arm setup?

At the moment I'm trying to track down prices and costings for everything - I'm estimating that the parts (I can do most of the work myself) and the bodywork (which I'm guessing will be by far the lions share of any costs) is probably going to be £20-£25K.
That's pretty close to what I paid for the car originally, but some way off the >£90-£100K that these things are currently going for in the UK. I'm just trying to work out whether I can justify trying to source that amount of money (and pay it off over the next few years) and keep my dream car for another decade, or cut and run; accepting that whatever proceeds come from a sale will likely go on sensible, but boring things like home improvements or early mortgage repayment. All of which are nice, but they don't exactly stir the soul like a wide arched, air-cooled, turbocharged 911....

Sigh... I guess quite a few of us have been here over the last few years, with the market being like it is.

Anyway, what should I be looking for in terms of upsizing to an 18" wheel, and what are my options for power mods without opening up the motor?

Cheers,
John

PhilMorrison

It sounds like a good plan to me (the bit where you overhaul it, not the bit where you listen to your family ). There is always the worry with UK cars of what rust turns up once you start digging though.
Regarding wheels, E88s would look incredible on a black car. I have Work Brombacher on mine which are a 'slightly' more affordable solution for custom wheels.

911 2

dont sell you will come to regret it whats a 100k youll soon blow that

Metal Guru

So sell your car and do what? Gaze lovingly at your bank account balance every day? (yes, there are some people who are into this)
Aside from that, there are two other problems with selling:
* Almost any newer 911 that you could buy for equivalent $$$ will depreciate (I know this is a hobby but depreciation still bothers me).
* If you stay with air-cooled 911's, no other car would be as fun to drive
Remember, never, ever sell your toys unless no doing so would make your family destitute.

Turbo Jonny

urquattro20Vt

Sounds like a good plan overall. Personally I'd skip cams...it's a turbo motor - and if you want more power just add a little boost. Do a 1 Bar spring, cat bypass and call it good. If feeling spendy do headers and/or a bigger intercooler. My opinion. I've heard the KW V3 coilovers ride very vice.

Never knew they had 3.3s in 1993 - you have a late car!

Brandon
'91 964 Turbo

bweSteve

I think the only reason we don't have '93 3.3 Turbo's here in the U.S. was because Porsche decided to put the RSA's into our market here for that year.

Careful on your last bullet item there,.... weeping seals, o-rings, etc can be a slippery slope especially once you pull the motor down & take a real good look at it on a stand. Ask me how I know!!

My '91 3.3 motor is currently out, and there a lot to do. But then again, I have owned for 14 yrs now, and even though the motor was freshened up back in 2002 at 60k miles,... I still have a number of weeping issues that I am going to address.
It doesn't currently full-on leak anywhere,.. and I don;t want it to start!!

Oh, & I do like the caliper re-powder coat. I did that about 4 years ago, then had the CeramicPro harder "Wheel & Caliper" ceramic applied to them.
They STILL look like brand new & I drive it all the time (brake dust). I'm a believer in Ceramic for our single stage non-metallic non-clear coat paint from the early 90's!!

Have fun with it!!
=Steve

urquattro20Vt

You are right about that! My perfectly running 95,000 mile motor ended up getting a case split rebuild due to " a few slow leaks" lol. Frankly I'm glad - exh valve guides were shot - replaced all the oil lines. Nice to have a clean sweet running motor.

Brandon
'91 911 Turbo

Megatron-UK

Thanks for the tip re: the Work Brombacher wheels - they look close enough to real BBS LM's for my purposes!

I suppose I should be grateful for the relatively good condition of the metalwork on the car - I've had it over 10 years now, and it's only in the last 1-2 years where I've started to see a few little bubbles around one spot on the front screen rubber and another on the rear. The exhaust system however, was junk just after I bought it back in 2007 or 2008 - totally rusted to hell. It actually went back the dealer in under a week because once of the heat exchangers started blowing through after just a few dozen miles of me driving it! Air injection pipework also didn't last much longer - it was like uncooked wholemeal spaghetti and just snapped off when you touched it! Good riddance to that lot though!

Megatron-UK

Shortly after I bought the car, another one of the (UK-based) regulars on here compared build numbers on our cars (they were single digits apart) - they both placed the cars very late in 1992 (probably close to the very last of the 3.3 model made), the other guy had a license plate typical for the year ('K' prefixed, I believe), however it seems like mine didn't sell immediately and quite likely made its way to a showroom where it sat for almost a year and wasn't registered on sold until later in 1993, so in UK terms it has a far newer license plate (an 'L' prefixed number; normally for vehicles registered 93-94) than would be expected of a 3.3.

So it is still a late 3.3; but it's technically a 1992 production year, though the UK government sees it as a 1993 model for all other purposes (since that was the first year it was registered by someone and put on the road).

Megatron-UK

Ha!

I remember you coming in to that special model 3.6, an ex-special wishes car from a Sultan's fleet wasn't it?

At the time, the price gulf between 3.3 and 3.6 just didn't exist - I just couldn't quite scrape together the ~£40k needed for a 3.6 and settled for just under £30k for a 3.3.... my oh my how things have changed.

I tend to do most of my own work (alongside my - now retired - mechanic father); incidentally, it's also taken me the last ten years of Porsche ownership to finish my big restoration project; taking a 1973 Ford Escort mk1 from a shell and building it in to something a bit more modern, a bit more comfortable and something a teensy bit faster:





It now has at least the same power output as my 3.3 Turbo was rated at originally, courtesy of the mighty Ford/Cosworth unit

No 'track car' interior specifications here either - full leather retrim and new carpets, full sound deadening, automatic headlights, Stack gauges and also a digital dashboard protoype I'm working on to interface with the Weber/Marelli ecu. Fun

Megatron-UK

Thank you all for your comments - they are much appreciated and have cemented in my mind the decision to treat the 964 to both some remedial repair work (body, brake calipers, oil line leaks) as well as some luxuries (further exhaust improvements, wheels and tyres, suspension etc).

Thanks all.

Hopefully the old girl will have at least another decade with me.... and perhaps I'll keep it a little while longer after that and pass it on to my daughters; though at 2 and 3, that's a pleasingly long enough time away

cobalt

IMO a full windows out bear metal respray is in order for the best quality and the better the job the more it pays for itself.

Do some research on bushings as many are NLA and you have to make compromises. I have used Dow betaseal urethane U-428Plus to fix torn bushings on some cars that didn't want to go aftermarket or monoball. It does an amazing job and can always be switched out later when Porsche decides to release them again for a small fortune. FYI this also stiffens up good ones.

Good to have you back. A lot has changed no doubt.

Actually all the US 3.6's were sold as 1994's however the majority were built and delivered in 1993 with revised 1994 vin numbers. Porsche did this more often than realized Especially in 1993/1994. I believe this was done so they could get around the US DOT requirements for the testing of 50 cars for each model year. All the MY 94 718 coded cars have 1993 MY P coded engine and trans. There were only 406 3.6's imported including all the S models and Canadian cars. An additional 50 tubs saved probably to make RS's

You guys got all the fun stuff back then we couldn't.

Metal Guru

I used to think that too but torque is like crack. Once you get used to a dose it requires more to get the same buzz.
Some mild cams still keeps you in CIS fuel trim. It's a cool mod, especially if you can do it yourself.

Igooz