AC/911's

YES, that sounds Right, (maybe the 111 is a different one that is a 3.6)

I Made a Call to A Good Freind that Maybe has these Parts for OP, Their Not that expensive.

Also I Had The Andial Enrichment system("7th injector") & I Had an Andial Intercooler, Same on on The S2's They Made.

I'm Taking Dyno Dowm, I dont want that to be the Topic.....

cobalt

So clearly it is not a stock engine with fuel lines and injectors. Was this at 1 bar or 1.2 bar? At 15 PSI your just a smidgen above 1.0 bar. Usually the stock WG with 1 bar spring creeps up to 15 or 15.5 PSI. pushing it to nearly 18 PSI is risky especially if it creeps without making internal changes. What fuel head was used and what was done to it? This is the biggest limiting factor to a stock CIS car. I am not sure what you mean by ROW Fuel lines the PET shows the same used for ROW and US Spec cars. I am assuming you are looking at 3.6 vs 3.3 fuel lines? I know for my track car the factory lines were not adequate so we increased the size of the lines to flow more fuel. Also all 930 and 964 turbos ran two fuel pumps. Did you upgrade the pumps on your car?

I run 1 bar myself but my car is a 3.6 and they came from the factory with a different range. 1994 3.6 Liter Turbo Max boost 0.79 to 0.85 bar 1992 3.3 Liter Turbo Max boost 0.75 to 0.81 bar. Not sure how much of a difference this makes but the stock studs don't like too much boost.

I believe the OP was looking for a simple change in spring to 1.0 taking it beyond that safely gets a bit more involved as you are now listing the mods made to your car. Most of us want reliable HP which limits what you can do without a lot of changes.

No doubt if you want to rebuild and modify there are many avenues you can take. But to achieve true reliable HP IMO it just makes more sense to discard the CIS. It is not as much the limitations of CIS to make the reliable HP but how CIS reacts which can be a killer for those that don't know these cars well.

There is the Jeff Zwart ANDIAL turbo for sale for $199,000 is limited to 5600 RPM and does produce 600 bhp on CIS but now we are talking huge investment and a limited redline.

http://www.thedrive.com/flat-six-soc...bsolutely-rips

Metal Guru

Gotta agree with Anthony here.

What the fuel head can provide is the limiting factor. Even modding the fuel head for more fuel delivery doesn't really get the most out of the engine no matter what form it's in. The biggest problem with K-Jet is going pig rich on boost onset, then leaning out dangerously at high rpm. That's a torque killer (and if your too rich, an engine killer) not to mention the fact that the air metering plate is a major restriction in the intake tract to the tune of something like 40 hp.

Boost above 1 bar with stock hardware? Forget about it. Heads lift and there's always the chance of burning a hole in a piston. There's not enough fasteners to hold a 911 head down at that boost.

My engine is at the limit of a stock fuel head with the K27/K29 hybrid turbo, SC cams and running .9 bar. I'm not making huge power and I didn't when my engine was stock either.

The only way that bigger fuel lines would make a difference is if the lines couldn't physically pass any more fuel and since I never hear of anyone changing these and injectors when not running methanol I assume I'm correct in this assumption.

What I do see is guys going to the Bosch 044 fuel pump but they are usually running EFI and other engine mods and can take advantage of it.

Bottom line is if you want big power on these engines, it's going to be very expensive. EFI, displacement increase, head work, cams, improved hardware and intercooler and it goes on and on. Helps to be your own wrench/engineer too. Many have tried to do it with K-Jet and all have failed. Too many critical tradeoffs involved.

AC/911's

I Had a Tial/Garrett Turbo & Wastegate, 2 044 Pumps, Like I Said Everything, Fuel Lines & Injectors DID It for Me, I Made way more Power than Expected, I Know This, Well, Because I Did it.

Back Again to OP, get the Euro Lines & Injectors if you can, There's a Reason why they made em.... More Fuel......


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Metal Guru

Anthony, your track car is originally a N/N twin 3.6 Motronic with twin turbos, correct? I could see you having to upsize your fuel lines on that.
Back when I was doing my modest engine mods, I performed a fuel head flow balance test with and without injectors. I can attest to the fact that the fuel lines from the fuel distributor to the heads, with the injectors off, can supply a lot more fuel than the engine needs.

Currently, my boost enrichment goes from 11/1 at 1900 rpm the 12.5/1 at 6000 rpm so clearly I cannot use any more fuel than I have and my power output is what it is (somewhere around 400-425 hp at the flywheel: I've never dyno'd my car and I frankly don't ever care to get into a dick measuring contest).

cobalt

Perhaps you can supply the part numbers for the lines and which ones you're talking about? I do see different part numbers for 91, 92 and 93 up MY's however the components are the same for both US and ROW 964 turbos. So I am confused by what you are saying. I am also interested in what fuel head was modified? A factory 964 head or another marque? CIS was used on many cars in the day.

Yes on my track car setup. The setup I am running was just to get me up and running and is very inefficient. I plan to revise quite a bit over time. The engine makes all the power i need and then some. Currently seeing 335 RWHP and Torque on a mustang dyno. Could be more or less in actual numbers but I can gain on modern Porsche's on track in a straight line. All about power to weight. Only if I can get the nerve to put the power down earlier and brake less, That comes with more seat time and the car is a handful but I am having fun learning how to tame the beast. Each time out I make additional improvements and in time I hope to have it where i want so I don't need to relearn it each time out.

Ideally I would like to revise the entire exhaust, turbos and exhaust pipes out the side ports like stock vs the center as it is now. Haltech and adjustments to the intercooler. Tune to 92 and possibly E80. Not sure about the E80 yet. I am concerned about reliable supply.

These cars in stock form with bolt on mods can safely put down to the wheels what they claim at the crank from the factory. With what you have done a bit more. The factory delivered these cars running very rich and no doubt we can extract more but with CIS I would prefer to play it safe. As much as I would love to see more out of my turbo I have seen too many push big HP out of the engines only to lift heads from too much boost or detonate them form running too lean.

I think the dyno is a great reference tool. It is nice to have before and after numbers since there are a lot of claims made by manufactures selling product claiming added power that sometimes actually detract or offer little to no gain.

I did test my C2 and track car recently on a mustang dyno and although I have charts from 10 years and showing my C2 putting down more power the curve is still the same. This tells me the engine is still healthy despite the hard driving and track miles.

AC/911's

I Bought Turbo From Tial, Garrett gt35 or 35R? & 44mm WG, I will Send you The Guy's Email (Todd) That Got Me Lines, Injectors & Andial FI, He Might still Have access to FI & Injectors, He Texted me saying he had some lines, They Are a Tight Fit, So be Careful if you get them.


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heliolps2

Hey guys

Its getting chilly here in DC at night , into the 40's as you know our cars love cold air,

I have my boost adjusted to 1.bar and it was fine when it was warm out, now that it's cold i hit the over boost, i seemed to creep,I adjusted down all good now, Does the cold air do that?

And what would happen if I disconnect the over boost switch? we have 93 fuel here, and cold air and and i'm in the high 11's at full boost, the only down side that i see, is that I have the stock hardware.

Helio

AC/911's

High 11's is Good.


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Metal Guru

Cold air is denser than warm air so there's more O2 available for combustion. Hopefully you have enough fuel too.
Your at high 11's at what rpm?
If you look at the compressor map for the K27 it chokes right around .9 bar. When a compressor chokes, it cannot flow any more air and the air it is flowing is really hot.
That hot air kills the thermal efficiency (you want cold air-combustion gas temperature delta to be as big as possible).
When I ran at 1 bar the car didn't feel any faster and I didn't care to stress the engine for no gain.
The factory ran .9 bar on the hot rod 964 Turbo S and the 3.6 Turbo so it seems they were aware of this too.