DaveK

Hi,
I've previously had 2 sets of SO2s and last week changed to Khumo's. Since the subject of tyres comes up a lot, I thought I'd give a comparison. Obviously, it's early days but the new tyres are well scrubbed in by now.

Handling : At the moment, the Khumos feel much more stable than the SO2s and the car reacts far less to uneven road surfaces. My car has never felt happy on part worn SO2s and reacts fairly violently to surface changes. Whether I'll have the same problem when the 712s wear remains to be seen.

Dry grip : I would say marginally less than the SO2s. Not enough to justify the price difference.

Wet grip : This is where I really notice the difference. The 712s definitely do not have the same level of grip as the SO2s - even partly worn ones - in my opinion. I have had two "incidents" in the car this week (second one this morning) and I'm fairly sure my driving hasn't changed that much in the last week. Obviously I am cornering too fast in the rain and I will slow down. However - it seems that I could corner at this speed on the SO2s and not on the 712s.

So - based on this, what would I buy next time?

Well - the difference in wet weather behaviour means I probably wouldn't buy Khumos again. Whether I buy Bridgestone depends a lot on how the car behaves when the 712s wear. If it still reacts fairly violently to uneven road surfaces, then I'll probably assume that's life and go back to SO2s. If it doesn't - then I'll look around for something that gives the wet weather grip of SO2s, and that behave themselves when they are half worn.

Christer

Hi Dave

Thanks for feedback vs SO2's. IMHO 712's are superior to Contis though in all conditions. I guess the SO2's are a particularly good wet tyre? I need new 712's on the rear in the next few months which I am happy to do as I have been on the whole pretty impressed with the 712's. After that, I guess I will go with the Tirerack surveys and buy the best tyres available at that time.

Take it easy in the wet then, I find them surefooted but then as you have 4 wheel drive I guess you drive harder in the wet than I do! I think in particular they stop pretty well.

johnfm

Dave

how long did you have the SO2s. It may be a combination of wet roads and cold weather - you need heat in tyres even in the wet!

Good review though! I have nothing to coompare my Toyos with, as my fronts still have loads of tread depth after 11k miles! On my second set of rears though!

DaveK

Had SO2s almost since I bought the car - 2 years ago.

delhi

the escta 712s are not in the same league as the S02/s03s. it should compare to re730s. As the 712s wear on, the performance is gonna deteriorate further whereas for S03s (i have them), the performance remains if not even better because of their tire technique used which peels into newer grippier compound as it wears. You should've tried the newer Kumho MX which IMHO is a better tire from the 712s.
In autoX the king of the street tires is actually Falken Azenis Sports. It's tread blocks are similar to those of the R-compounds! But you do get compromise on wet handling. But ultimate dry grip it's better than even the S03s.

DaveK

I can only compare against the tyres I've had on my car - hence 712s vs SO2s.

I didn't really want to try MX - I went for 712s because they were recommended by someone I trust.

Or at least - someone I used to trust.....

To be honest - at least on bikes, I've found over the years tyre choice comes down a lot to personal taste / driving style. Years ago everyone raved about the new bike tyres Bridgestone brought out - I tried them and I absolutely hated them. Guess car tyres are not so different.

Christer

Bugger....

It is a very subjective choice, I have spoken to people that prefer 712's to SO3's regardless of price.

No one does Autox in the UK, our carparks aren't big enough.

joey bagadonuts

Dave,

What tyre pressures are you using? The C4 is so great in the rain that I'm wondering if anything else is going on.

I was actually stunned by the wet-weather stick of the Kumho Victoracers. I could never get them to spin out in a straight line, even from a standing start. So if the Kumho R compounds are that good in the wet, I find it surprising that their street tires are a poor wet-weather performer.

FWIW, I believe 36 psi all around is a good cold number but anything less will be a bit slippery.

slingshot C2

I purchased a set of the ECSTA MX's for my 300hp MkII Golf and am less than impressed with them.
they have only 2600km's on them but feel simply crap compared to the Yokahama ES100's I have on my C2
the ES100's were actually the same price as the MX's and in the wet, the ES100's destroy the MX.
the Golf is equipped with sway's front and rear, upper and lower, race suspension and all the goodies, so tho it is not a Porsche... it was built with the intent to handle as close to one as possible.

I am also a real fan of the Parada Spec2 tho they wear out quickly.

Drew_K

I have 712's now, and they don't have as much grip as the N rated ContiSport Contact 2's that I replaced. I have separate track tires, so the 712's are fine for street use, but I won't buy them again. The Kumho MX's are rated pretty well. I may try those next.

RSAErick

When I first bought my 964, I verified that the 712's are NOT track-worthy. They will lose chunks of rubber when pushed into track duty. Just an FYI.

Erick

DaveK

I run standard pressures - 44 rear, 36 front (I have 16" wheels, not 17). It might be worth me trying to drop these a bit - I found they suited the SO2s but maybe the 712s like a bit less.

I should say that I'm not saying the 712s are bad tyres - especially considering the price. It's simply that I have had the car sliding twice since buying them. It might make sense to try lower pressure in the rears actually, because it is the back which has started to go both times and that's unusual. Usually if I push too hard, the front gets pushed.

Randall G.

Since we're talking tires.... Based on what I'm finding at tirerack.com, it looks like the Bridgestone RE-730 has already been discontinued. As some of you may recall, the RE-730 was the replacement for the discontinued RE-71. Many of us (myself included) were forced to buy 2 more tires prematurely when unable to purchase RE-71s that matched what's already on the car (e.g., half-worn front tires).

In my case, I purchased 4 new RE-730s, after a failed (but conclusive) experiment in mixing RE-71s and RE-730s. This was fairly recent--summer of '02. Looks like I'll have to buy 4 more new tires again when the rears wear.

The Kumho 712--at only $67/each (!), sounds interesting. Man, that's cheap.

Flatsixer

The SO-3 is perhaps the best wet weather performance tire out there. You pay for that performance in a high price point however. I found the Khumo MX to be an outstanding tire on my previous 91' Acura NSX. The NSX is notorious for scrapping rear tire's in a short period of time, the Khumo's held up better than I thought they would for the price. The MX is a pretty soft, sticky tire too. I will soon have 18" wheels on my 964 and will run the MX's again. Regards, Brady

delhi

NO way! You brits are such car nuts.... even an empty WWII airbase will do. The tarmac might be too grippy though.
I guess for regular street driving, the 712s will be fine. Another alternative is the BFG K/Ds. They work really well in high performance setup. The sidewalls are stiff. But not cheap. The MX's thread design is uncannily similar to the S-03s. Anyways still the best bang for the muck IMHO are the Azenis Sports.
check it!