Porsche930

Our 964s are getting over 25 years young, I wonder if people have any great ideas with the steering and passenger-side airbags. Love to hear how folks maintain, update or perhaps disable this safety feature. Thanks!

elbeee964

Maintain? Yes, count me in the 'maintain' camp.

Wasn't aware of the 'update' option.

And the 'disable' idea sounds a bit like tossing out the life preservers because you've got life boats (i.e., the car's crumple structure and belts).

Now, I HAVE heard these first gen airbags deploy with a mighty, unadjusted POP. Still, it's better than the 'not' in previous 911 gens.

Porsche930

I don't want to touch them either as long as they will still work as designed. How does one find out if they are still up to par? I don't like the idea to think they are okay only to find out not after an accident.

cscrogham

It has always been my opinion (perhaps incorrect) if there is no light on, then they are working properly. Any wiring fault would turn on the airbag light. That said, I have run into more and more 964's with the airbags either removed or inoperable and someone has closed the wiring loop to turn off the light.
I prefer to keep the stock airbags, one of the reasons I prefer the 964 over earlier 911's is it has passive safety features. I would strongly suggest that no one ever disable their airbags and then turn off the light, what if you sell the car and someone gets hurt?

jennifer911

Porsche930, you are not the only one to ponder over this safety feature. Both the NHTSA and the Insurance Institute have crash tested a bunch of the crappiest, rustiest, waterlogged 1980s and 90s cars and the airbags worked as expected. The earliest airbags did have an expiry date but by the time the 964 was made the seals and wiring of airbags were perfected.

You could check with Porsche to see if your year of car has airbags with an expiry date and if they have a discount program for a replacement. However, the bags of the 90s were considered good for the life of the car.

911Jetta

At least they still work - I've heard of a couple airbags going off in the past couple of years... (with windshield popping potential)

Popped the passenger airbag over a manhole cover
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...ole-cover.html



Just wrecked my c2 Porsche. Looking for a cabriolet/Coupe rolling chassis
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...chassis-2.html

cscrogham

More likely that the front airbag sensors were the issue here. They are little black boxes that sit on the front frame rails, require a special tool to remove. I took one apart years ago its basically a spring with a bb ball in there, with enough force the bb forces the spring back and makes contact then BOOM. Airbag comes out.
Over time its possible those sensors could corrode etc and cause an issue.

Porsche930

Thanks everyone who have chimed in so far; I really appreciate your input. So my added worries now are with those corroded spring sensors in addition to the integrity of the aging airbags themselves. I definitely don't want them popped when I hit a large bump or pothole! That's a pretty scary envision. So how else do we 964 enthusiasts manage or mitigate this potential hazard in our cars? It seems like this is an important predicament to be addressed more thoroughly. Any more thoughts or comments?

dlpalumbo

Per Adrian's book page 370 the airbags have a 15 year life and should be replaced after that time. I have not found the system components in the parts list. Again from Adrian the 1990, 91 and 92 all had different systems. The system an be tested with 9288.

You can find new airbag equipped steering wheels.

Does '92 system have less sensitive sensors? Is a retrofit possible?

More questions than answers. I wonder if even Porsche would have the answers.

Spyerx

I've pulled mine. I don't need an airbag popping with a minor off on track. 30 yr old explosive device.... I'll take my chances.

jennifer911

Spyerx, an airbag sensor is in effect a programed accelerometer, bumping and shaking will not set off the airbags. In the U S, airbag deployment requires a rapid deceleration before a signal is sent to the airbag’s ECU, this little computer uses an algorithm to also check wheel speed and other sensors to decide if an airbag inflation is required. A “minor off track” as you have stated, will not set off your bags. Millions of trucks etc. bump and bash around off-road without setting off the airbags. The interiors of all the crucial airbag components are sealed in a glass ceramic material to keep them fresh and moisture free. Although nothing is foolproof, note the Takata bag recall. These units deploy as required, but may also toss some metal shards from the bag’s outer case into your face.

The red car in the picture (several posts above) has a broken bumper cover from hitting some of those small springy trees that would brought it to a sudden stop. More telling is the completely popped out windshield, this must have been installed by the worlds most incompetent glass shop, or by some well meaning but clueless amateur tinkerers. This should never happen in an accident, rollover etc. it prevents the passenger airbag from attaining the correct shape, allows a child or other occupant to be ejected and reduces the structural integrity of the car.

porsche mania

I've heard of a couple of 964 airbags going off on lowered/stiffer cars on pot holes. Admittedly not a problem on 90 c2 as it doesn't have them! Safety should obviously be a priority but then old cars aren't exactly safe in the first place! The spindly a posts worry me more, although compared to the alfa I just got the 964 is a volvo!

Dr Mitch

I've honestly been looking for an excuse (i.e., some CNN reporting "airbags produced prior to '95 are no longer safe and should be disabled or removed immediately!") so I can swap it out with a Momo Gilles Villeneuve steering wheel that has been sitting on my wall for past few years, but everything I've read says the AB should still be good - I still daily drive mine, so I'll leave the original steering wheel on until the 964 becomes a weekend-only sunny day car...

FrenchToast

The track is a specific application that needs specific discussion.

Airbags, AFAIK, are not designed to work in a track setting (wearing full gear).

Additionally, a full race car does not use airbags. It's interior components and driver gear is designed to work without airbags.

While I cannot comment on the science behind the stipulation, some organizations require one to remove the fuse for airbags in a track setting.
_

Edit: I've retracted my statement based on jennifer911's explanation below.

jennifer911

Back in the 80s additional crash testing standards were imposed. Car manufactures killed two birds with one stone ‘so to speak’. Flush mounted, bonded in windshields made the cars lighter and more aerodynamic and also added a rigid structure to help the car pass the roll over and cabin integrity tests.

One minute with google will give you the government standards and statements from car manufactures regarding windshield bonding requirements in order to maintain structural integrity (their terminology)

Race cars are not germane to this discussion, passenger cars aren’t generally safe in a car race and race cars aren’t safe on the street.