964 as hpde car??
09-03-2016, 11:43 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
A Porsche Near-Missed Track Barriers At The Nurburgring - AutoTrends.my
https://apple.news/Apy44bLoGRDmUb3njAgOxkg
09-03-2016, 07:25 PM
#17
Race Car
Man. I had seen that...crazy.
I'll track mine sometimes...but I won't push it all that hard since I'm not racing...but if I were going to do it a lot and in any serious way, I'd buy a shunted car. Or actually there is an scca gt2 993 that was a 964 for sale in Texas for not huge money...and that car was a good mid pack running gt2 car from the nineties onward until just a few years ago. It's a serious track day car now...comes with a bunch of wheels, a few motors and lots of extras...
Anyway to the original poster...don't get me wrong, I don't mean to take the wind outa your sails...exactly the opposite. When you get the right car and get out there you are going to have an absolute ball...just make sure that if you burry it in a tire wall, that it's ok that it happens...cuz it happens...even to the best of them...
I'll track mine sometimes...but I won't push it all that hard since I'm not racing...but if I were going to do it a lot and in any serious way, I'd buy a shunted car. Or actually there is an scca gt2 993 that was a 964 for sale in Texas for not huge money...and that car was a good mid pack running gt2 car from the nineties onward until just a few years ago. It's a serious track day car now...comes with a bunch of wheels, a few motors and lots of extras...
Anyway to the original poster...don't get me wrong, I don't mean to take the wind outa your sails...exactly the opposite. When you get the right car and get out there you are going to have an absolute ball...just make sure that if you burry it in a tire wall, that it's ok that it happens...cuz it happens...even to the best of them...
09-03-2016, 09:39 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I agree with that a well set up 964 is great fun. Stock, mehhh.
An alternative is a 996gt3! Engines seems bullet proof. Try to find one that someone already paid for most of upgrades. They are fun toys and is likely coming down in price again. $45k a couple of years ago. I know that people ask $65! But, that's no happening.
An alternative is a 996gt3! Engines seems bullet proof. Try to find one that someone already paid for most of upgrades. They are fun toys and is likely coming down in price again. $45k a couple of years ago. I know that people ask $65! But, that's no happening.
No thank you for that kind of money
09-04-2016, 12:10 AM
#20
Race Car
Originally Posted by nowata
There are a couple salvaged ones on eBay but they aren't really that great of a deal imo
Copart every so often has salvage 964 that go dirt cheep...
09-04-2016, 01:15 AM
#21
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air cooled porsches are getting expensive to buy.
And when you get one, it will still cost a few dollars more to make it decent on the track.
If you got the budget and desire, then a 964 is not a bad way to scratch the itch for a track day toy. ABS and coil suspension. 993 is even nicer.
But given the values and performance, i do not consider them as something i would want for track.
And as far as racing goes, i do not see many people running 964 and 993...
If you do not mind the water cooled porsches, the 09+ cayman offers good value and performance as a track toy.
And when you get one, it will still cost a few dollars more to make it decent on the track.
If you got the budget and desire, then a 964 is not a bad way to scratch the itch for a track day toy. ABS and coil suspension. 993 is even nicer.
But given the values and performance, i do not consider them as something i would want for track.
And as far as racing goes, i do not see many people running 964 and 993...
If you do not mind the water cooled porsches, the 09+ cayman offers good value and performance as a track toy.
09-05-2016, 11:54 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Ok, I'm the idiot who bought a super clean and ideally spec'd 964 to track along my gt3. The 964 stock sucks. Too SOFT. Modded, it's razor sharp and an absolute blast. While it doesn't have the pace of the gt3 clearly, it's as much fun. People tracked the crap out of these back in the 90s, they are good track cars, but need some mods to be reliable and perform well.
That said... Unless you want air cooled for the track... I think a 996 GT3 is a better decision. They are FAST, super reliable, and have most of the stuff you need to be track reliable out the box. And by time you get a good 964 and mod it you're in the ballpark on price.
Of course any car you track you have to be comfortable walking away from it. That $ level varies by person.
That said... Unless you want air cooled for the track... I think a 996 GT3 is a better decision. They are FAST, super reliable, and have most of the stuff you need to be track reliable out the box. And by time you get a good 964 and mod it you're in the ballpark on price.
Of course any car you track you have to be comfortable walking away from it. That $ level varies by person.
09-05-2016, 01:07 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ok, I'm the idiot who bought a super clean and ideally spec'd 964 to track along my gt3. The 964 stock sucks. Too SOFT. Modded, it's razor sharp and an absolute blast. While it doesn't have the pace of the gt3 clearly, it's as much fun. People tracked the crap out of these back in the 90s, they are good track cars, but need some mods to be reliable and perform well.
That said... Unless you want air cooled for the track... I think a 996 GT3 is a better decision. They are FAST, super reliable, and have most of the stuff you need to be track reliable out the box. And by time you get a good 964 and mod it you're in the ballpark on price.
Of course any car you track you have to be comfortable walking away from it. That $ level varies by person.
That said... Unless you want air cooled for the track... I think a 996 GT3 is a better decision. They are FAST, super reliable, and have most of the stuff you need to be track reliable out the box. And by time you get a good 964 and mod it you're in the ballpark on price.
Of course any car you track you have to be comfortable walking away from it. That $ level varies by person.
09-05-2016, 03:21 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Do you have a line on a 40k 964 that doesn't need an engine rebuild? Or need other major mechanicals before its track safe?
Brakes, chassis, safety are going to be closer to 20 all in.
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...r-rebuild.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...250-miles.html
Don't think a 964 is a cheaper de car. It won't be.
If you want an inexpensive (for a) Porsche de car pickup a 987.1 or .2 Cayman.
Brakes, chassis, safety are going to be closer to 20 all in.
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...r-rebuild.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...250-miles.html
Don't think a 964 is a cheaper de car. It won't be.
If you want an inexpensive (for a) Porsche de car pickup a 987.1 or .2 Cayman.
09-05-2016, 04:10 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
I love my 964 on the track but the price of a decent stock coupe with a sound motor is pretty steep today.
As Spyerx and others have said once you finish suspension, tires & wheels, seats & belts, just to get started, you can easily spend another $20K. They are rewarding when driven well but there are cheaper
alternatives. Nothing like an air cooled 911 though.
As Spyerx and others have said once you finish suspension, tires & wheels, seats & belts, just to get started, you can easily spend another $20K. They are rewarding when driven well but there are cheaper
alternatives. Nothing like an air cooled 911 though.
09-05-2016, 04:36 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Yeah times have changed. It cost some money to put anything on the track. And if you like your cars in top shape it costs a pretty penny to build them and keep them that way. Most of it has to do with the level of build, my specbox has even morphed into a ST3 car with a 3.4 and JRZs. By the time all is said and done it cost about the same to buy a cup, build a ST3 level boxster or a ST3 level RSAmerica. The platform is less of an influence than the level of build. If your ultimate goal is a DE car pick the one that you can get excited about and go for it. Each one is a very different experience. If you wad one up the repair costs are very similar, with the aircooled parts getting harder and harder to find. The engine and gearbox costs are getting similar as well.
If you EVER have thoughts about racing then you need to be much more analytical about it. Lastly after years of DE/Racing and instructing, IMHO cars at this level of performance and at the advanced level DE, need all the same level of safety equipment and level of prep that a race car does. Cutting corners does not make sense. As the differences narrow you ultimately end up with a purpose built race car. A nice GT3 is getting harder and harder to find. Hate to cut one up for the track and many have a lot of track rash. Once you fully prep it you're better off getting a cup.
This car (93 RSA) had a nice bilsteins cup suspension, roll bar, fire bottle, harnesses, recaros, exhaust, that was a nice balance for DE, after a near disaster (almost T boned at 60 in a DE) I vowed to take it off the track and not beat it up. Just used race cars on the track. It was stolen and chopped, as a big F'U I bought back the salvage and put it back together. It was meticulously kept before stolen, it has been meticulously rebuilt, full strip, custom cage, motons, suspension, 280hp, 2500 lbs wet. It's in the cup/gt3 cost range and an absolute blast on the track. With its recent hard life I don't feel bad about tracking it and have more fun in this car than the cup or boxster. With the other cars I have, I would consider a swap for a clean GT3. You could do it cheaper but the question is what level is acceptable to you.
If you EVER have thoughts about racing then you need to be much more analytical about it. Lastly after years of DE/Racing and instructing, IMHO cars at this level of performance and at the advanced level DE, need all the same level of safety equipment and level of prep that a race car does. Cutting corners does not make sense. As the differences narrow you ultimately end up with a purpose built race car. A nice GT3 is getting harder and harder to find. Hate to cut one up for the track and many have a lot of track rash. Once you fully prep it you're better off getting a cup.
This car (93 RSA) had a nice bilsteins cup suspension, roll bar, fire bottle, harnesses, recaros, exhaust, that was a nice balance for DE, after a near disaster (almost T boned at 60 in a DE) I vowed to take it off the track and not beat it up. Just used race cars on the track. It was stolen and chopped, as a big F'U I bought back the salvage and put it back together. It was meticulously kept before stolen, it has been meticulously rebuilt, full strip, custom cage, motons, suspension, 280hp, 2500 lbs wet. It's in the cup/gt3 cost range and an absolute blast on the track. With its recent hard life I don't feel bad about tracking it and have more fun in this car than the cup or boxster. With the other cars I have, I would consider a swap for a clean GT3. You could do it cheaper but the question is what level is acceptable to you.
09-06-2016, 12:32 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
i race a 993 in stock class against C2/RSA weighing in at 29xx lbs. I have never seen or heard of those guys running out of brakes. In fact, when I raced my 944S2 weighing >3k lbs with similar brake to 92and later 964, I Never had any problems with adequate cooling
A decent suspension (mild $ to wild $$) and weight reduction makes the 964 a nice track car if you avoid the slippery slope. Problem is that the price of street cars is reflected in the salvage market, so the cost of putting one back together is higher than 98x/99x variety and people are taking them off the track which reduces the number of competitors in racing
A decent suspension (mild $ to wild $$) and weight reduction makes the 964 a nice track car if you avoid the slippery slope. Problem is that the price of street cars is reflected in the salvage market, so the cost of putting one back together is higher than 98x/99x variety and people are taking them off the track which reduces the number of competitors in racing
09-06-2016, 01:13 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
I want to continue to get better at being a 911Driver... so I drive my car as much as I can, and it would be the only car I'd want to track also.
I've done 10 track days with my 964 so far, and though it was loose and I was ragged I always drive home with a big grin on my face.
Glad to be alive, and glad to be just that little bit better of a 911Driver.
I want J Richard's RSA!
I've done 10 track days with my 964 so far, and though it was loose and I was ragged I always drive home with a big grin on my face.
Glad to be alive, and glad to be just that little bit better of a 911Driver.
I want J Richard's RSA!
09-07-2016, 01:03 AM
#29
Race Director
I hope this is the right genre to post this in. I've had varying reports on the track cred of the 964. I'm looking at an unmodifed c2 driver to throw some seats, harness bar, and suspension in so I can drive to track. I value the quintessential Porsche experience along with durability foremost if that's even a realistic combination. I could get a z06 if outright velocity were my mission.
Experiences and suggestions appreciated. Contrasts to the 993 are appreciated. Some reputable shops have steered me twds a 964 which also plays into my inquiry here.
Experiences and suggestions appreciated. Contrasts to the 993 are appreciated. Some reputable shops have steered me twds a 964 which also plays into my inquiry here.
Mine has lowering springs, bilstein struts, tower brace, RS alignment, upgraded rear calipers, racing pads, and R compound tires. Also it has some stiff engine mounts, and FVD racing headers and mufflers. So although it is still street "legal", it is not very fun to drive on the street.
With all this and many track days under my belt, I'm just hitting the times that the Spec Boxters are turning. Any modern Porsche with a good driver will be passing you. Although this weekend I passed a 997 Turbo, a 991 GT-3, and a Cayman GT-4. But that is a combination of driver and street car configuration. The 993 will be very similar, little more HP, better stance if you get an S model. But overall roughly the same performance. The 993 is probably a better platform if you end up converting it to full race. But then you should just buy a 996 Cup.
