uwiik

Hi All!
Waiting anxiously for the importation process for my 964 C2 Tiptronic from the UK.... Yeah It is a Tip and I intend to use and build it that way...Google Jakarta-Indonesia traffic problem and you will not blame me for getting Tip box I have a 2009 GT2, off course in manual and I swore to myself never to buy another manual sports car as long as I still live in this country..... Even my Chiropractor advised me to get rid of my GT2 which I won't....

Now, I am targeting modest 300 RWHP, not looking for high HP, I am more of a torque/drivability person. Assuming my engine is healthy which the UK based professional inspector who inspected my car says so...Can anybody advise me to the right direction? I know there are so many posts about this 300 RWHP target number but there was none for Tiptronic...

Thinking about these outta my head, please kindly advise me
- Motec M6000/latest one (Anyone know how to marry this with Tiptronic?)
- Motec Knock sensor/Control Module
- Motec Lambda Sensor module
- Motec Data logging module
- Motec whatever module needed
- De cat, muffler delete
- Air Filter
- Possibly 9M billet heads??? Or just get somebody to rebuild and tune my stock head?? (I know heads makes a lot of difference but don't know if it is necessary for my modest 300 RWHP target)
- MAF conversion so I can get VE based table???
- 3.8 conversion??? (preferably not as the cost and gain ratio is not there I heard)

I am familiar with detailed tuning of AFR, optimizing timing, knock control (as long as there is decent datalogging facility within the ECU), mechanical and electrical mods or installation aspects are things that I regularly handle myself as a hobbyist too, nobody does it properly in Indonesia so I was forced to learn by myself since long ago. No way I am claiming to be an expert, but so far my experiences with multiple toys both four and two wheels proved that as long as the vendor have a good base map and willing to guide me, the rest are almost always just pure logical thinking on my side as the one sitting on driver's seat. I don't see any problem at all getting everything installed and tuned by myself.

Please kindly assist folks

Many thanks

Dwi

John McM

I lived in Jakarta for 4 years and the guys there told it was near impossible to import a used Porsche. I think they were calling them VWs. I understand your need for a Tip. Maybe a sanity pill as well unless you drive at 2am.

uwiik

Very tough, requiring miles of patience and perseverance with undertaking multiple legal holes workout but possible, that is why these kind of cars are really special here. Yeah, the ones that has been here since day one on grey imports were registered as VW-Porsche on paper, they changed it to Porsche only starting from 996 when official Porsche dealership first open its door here.

It is not that bad right now with new bigger roads, expansion of big suburbs with modern roads and a lot more better cars, outside rush hour the drive is bearable but what I hate the most is when I have to creep along a 2-3 km toll gate queue in a lot of that unfortunate timing. Just imagine constantly modulating the clutch for 2-3 km for 20-30 min, my left leg and I really hate myself when that happen. Automatic car is clearly preferred here, be it a collectable or normal bread and butter vehicles...

Now, having a 300 RWHP 964 Tip will be really special, any experience anyone?

u7t2p7

You want to call/email Steve Weiner at Rennsport Systems in Portland,Oregon.

uwiik

Sounds good. Just one last question before my thread got burried deeper...

Is 300RWHP on a tip considered "heavy/serious" mod or something that one can achieve without tearing apart the internal of the engine?

Thanks

John McM

As I understand it the Tipo box is Mercedes and very robust.

The engine is normally rated at 250hp at the crank. Not sure what the transmission loss is but let's say 20% so the standard Tipo rwhp is 200hp.

Based on the above you would need 375hp at the crank, which is more than my old Turbo 3.6 could muster.

To get this on a normally aspirated engine would require major work. I have an after market fully programmable engine management system on my car and I doubt it gives me more than 275hp at the crank. Maybe you can go 3.8 and enlarge the rpm range but I doubt it's worth it. Even more so because you live in a congested city where a high strung engine would be painful.

Just my two rupiah.

azander

It's actually a ZF transmission not used on any Mercs. 4hp22. Mercs based tips are 996 and up, I believe.

I'd go the other way... strip the car down. Focus on weight reduction, suspension and brakes. Build it in the spirit of the '90 964 Tiptronic Cup Car.

John McM

Yes, you are right. I had a 996TT and I remember someone saying they were bullet proof Mercedes units. Got my wires crossed here although the reliability angle still seems correct. I haven't heard many complaints about them over the years spent on this board.

haygeebaby

Dwi
Not many options. I don't think anyone has done a motec with tiptronic. Sort of waste too much time / would cost too much scenario.
Best bang for buck is TPC supercharger. I would not go beyond the stock pulley for more power as the tiptronic unit wont be able to handle it.
I went down this route with a 1994 993 tip. So feel free to ask me more questions if you like. Also the supercharge recently came off and is for sale.
Regards
Ken

haygeebaby

Tip unit is used in a bunch of cars. Seems to be very common in Land Rovers and Jags around that time. So if you spend time on the 4X4 forums you might learn a bunch of things that can be done for them.
I would say Ashcroft Transmission in England are the best to talk to.
They will have to enlarge your oil housing unit - I think by a few centimetres - for their recommended strengthen mods. I was not sure if this would work in our cars so did not go down this route. So might be handy for you to get someone to drive the car in for them to look at before it gets send to you.
The only reason why you would want to talk to these guys is to strengthen your box. I think I was getting 257rwhp with my configuration and 270n torque. The tip box wont handle that power for long. I rebuilt my box once already. At the time I was on a mission to get the best 1/4 mile time as possible. On the first ever run after the TPC install I achieved a 12.9 1/4 mile run. I modified a heap of things but never did another 1/4 after the box gave up - 2nd gear was totally blown away. But I would say that after all the mods and weight savings I did, and the fine tuning of the software / setup we would have have been very close to a 12.5 1/4 mile time.
Not bad for a tip. 993 turbo is around low 12's. Car was plenty fast. Beats a V8 M3, and about half car faster than C63 NA up to about 3 gear.

But I would say that 964 and 993 are best kept in NA format. Loose some weight from the car. And make sure it's in tip top condition. And enjoy it for what it is.
Accept it for what it is.
Saying that - the increase it torque from the SC makes the car super fun and more driveable.

uwiik

Hi all,
WOW! I thought my thread will just get burried because of a simple fact that Tip and Performance does not go hand in hand in our Air Cooled case..LOL!! Love the challenge though...

JohnMCM and Azander, I think you both were right.... I have done further reading and to get my Tip to get that number will probably be more expensive than buying another 964 and not worth it at all. Initially I was thinking by taking a little bit of time to recover from my recent wallet weight reduction, I will eventually be willing to spend another GBP10-20K to get that 300 RWHP figure. Now it seems that due to my Tip box constraint, even another GBP10-20K will not be enough to get that dreamy figure for a Tip... Weight reduction is probably the best NA option for me right now. I also read on other thread that even Ninemeister do not think that Motec is compatible with Tip box...Well, it is what it is, I would still choose to keep my sanity and be a bit slower with the Tip instead of going manual and get the power but lose my sanity...Unless off course there are still other possible NA options to at least get close to my "dreamy" figure while keeping my Tip

Thanks a lot for the willingness to share, much appreciated.

Cheers

Dwi

uwiik

Hi Ken,

thanks a lot for the kind offer! Yes I would like to take you up on your offer of advices being in the same boat as me with Tip..

How do you feel the TPC SC has been treating you? I was leaning towards this option as I understand that this gives the best bang for your bucks cost/hp/tq ratio wise...However, I was then put off by the simple fact that although some owners are totally satisfied and hang on to it, there are also many of the TPC SC owners ended up selling their kit, there must be a reason for that. One of the reason that I can think off is noise, as I undertand the SC will give a distinct whining SC noise that many owners think making the beautiful music of air cooled NA engine being drowned under the SC whine...Some owners also claimed that SC is not suitable for track purpose which is actually fine with me as I don't plan to track my 964... I haven't totally shut my door for TPC SC option but honestly it is at the very bottom of my option list right now. I am very keen to learn what other mods you have done to improve your car performance. What do you plan for next power mods and don't you miss the power now that you took off your SC? Do you mind listing your mods and approx power figure you are having now without the TPC SC? I hope you don't mind if I copy some if not all of your mods as it is so hard to find good power mods example for us feeble Tip driver.. Your personal opinion and experience is greatly appreciated please.

Unfortunately the car has been loaded and in the middle of the ocean right now and I can't do anything with it at this point, off course I can always send the engine or/and trans back to the UK for mods later which is very easy and cost almost nothing transport wise, besides I am already so used of waiting for ages sending things back and forth between this side of the world and that side of the world for my toys, so really sending things back to the UK is not an issue at all. Even so, If I go down TPC SC route, I will just wait until my Tip blew up before upgrading it, based on your experience I believe my Tip will last a lot longer because I have no intention on chasing qt mile nor racing the car. I like performance just because I like that short burst of thrill for giggles, torque torque and torque for me. Not that I don't like racing or chasing numbers, I have done few events during my single time many years ago, but right now going to the event or track is another torture by itself here and I just do not have the patience nor the time to endure the torture...I prefer to just play with the kids and the grumpy missus...LOL!! I know I make it sounds as if it is terrible here in Indonesia, it is not at all!!... Apart from the traffic problem and unavailability of parts locally here, it is actually a really wonderful country to settle in, I am just in the wrong hobby for the country...

Out of topic question, I wonder what's up with our wonderful Tip box? Why is it so hard to upgrade our Tip box? Excuse my ignorance but like I said that I always favor no clutch option with the traffic here, naturally all of my other toys except the GT2 have automatic box and based on my previous experience, upgrading an American Auto box to handle wild HP/TQ is really as simple as a walk in the park, what makes our Tip so much different?

Thanks for the wonderful insight and looking forward for the "enlightenment"

Cheers!!

Dwi

JasonAndreas

The most powerful normally aspirated 964 engine is currently (or will be) mated to a tiptronic...

uwiik

Hi JasonAndreas,
please kindly assist me, I am very very interested to hear more about this. I really prefer to stay NA.

thanks

dwi

azander

dwi,

Jason is referring to Robert Linton's beast, the America GS. Check the sticky at the top of the main 964 page. You'll find a list of what went into re-engineering his transmission.