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experienced sellers almost always sell to dealers.
i will not sell to individual unless i either know you well or someone i trust know you well... why...
1. i really dont like to answer any questions or take any pic
2. i dont have time to coordinate ppi
3. i hate it when ppl are 2 min late coming to see the car. i really really just dont have time. i sleep 4 hours a day.
4. private buyers after paying may still come back asking you 80+ questions
5. private buyers, not all, but many are tire kicking
6. private buyers think they know the mkt, but they really dont. mkt is created by the resellers. if one wants to argue this point, then he doesn't understand the mkt period.
7. private buyers pay slow.
8. one call usually 10 min, dealers i work with will wire in 24 hours. then arrange for pick up. i do nothing. they do everything. (i however do not sell to shady dealers. some actually wants the car before they pay or they want to send me a cashier's chk. sorry, i am a banker. 50% of the cashiers' chk we see are fake. you wire, i get moeny first. then i ship the car. a real dealer understands that)
so as a seller, i and most others want convenience. saving 5 hours to me is worth losing 5k or 10k and just be done with it.
as a buyer, i buy the seller, not the car. if i trust the dealer or a private seller, i will pay up. sometimes 2x mkt price if i want the car. to me, the seller IS the car. i rarely go see the cars i buy and i have never done PPI on any cars i bought. i dont think i ever boght a bad car. i just need to chat with you on the phone or exchange a few emails then i will know what type of owner you are. then make a decision to buy or not buy.
but the buying part is fun. find the right car for YOU. and be patient.
the selling part i dont like to sell into private mkt for reasons above. when you sell as many cars as i have, you get tired very quickly.
sometimes you just got to be at the right place right time. i sold one car 3 weeks ago to a member here. i told him all the bad things about the car. he says he will fly up and see it, if it's not worse than i described, he will pay and drive home. he came up , saw, pay and drove home. he got quite a nice deal. he was recommended by someone here i know well. so i know he's not a tire kicker.
Countrywide Financial was a bank. Countrywide Financial was bad. Therefore all banks are bad. Lots of generalizations like this statement above. Can't argue with your opinions however there are plenty of knowledgeable, honest, on time and quick paying buyers out there as well.
I get John's point, its easy to sell the car to a dealer and not have to deal with the headache process of selling a car. Selling my GT3 recently was luckily a smooth process but there are too many people fishing for a steal which wastes so much time dealing with the emails and texts. Although, the people who actually picked up a phone to call me, were always serious. Tire kickers are too lazy to make a phone call. I had a buyer within two weeks of doing a soft listing that gave a verbal commitment of buying my car, once his 997T sold which was in process. Once his car was sold, he had a PPI done on my car, flew up the next day, and drove home to LA. The only communication we've had since is that he's enjoying the car and asking to meet up at a cars and coffee in socal.
I'm sure in today's marketplace a lot of buyers entertain the thought of buying a car out of state but eventually don't have the ability to make it happen. Personally, I've bought and sold several cars out of state PP and never had any issues.
experienced sellers almost always sell to dealers.
i will not sell to individual unless i either know you well or someone i trust know you well... why...
1. i really dont like to answer any questions or take any pic
2. i dont have time to coordinate ppi
3. i hate it when ppl are 2 min late coming to see the car. i really really just dont have time. i sleep 4 hours a day.
4. private buyers after paying may still come back asking you 80+ questions
5. private buyers, not all, but many are tire kicking
6. private buyers think they know the mkt, but they really dont. mkt is created by the resellers. if one wants to argue this point, then he doesn't understand the mkt period.
7. private buyers pay slow.
8. one call usually 10 min, dealers i work with will wire in 24 hours. then arrange for pick up. i do nothing. they do everything. (i however do not sell to shady dealers. some actually wants the car before they pay or they want to send me a cashier's chk. sorry, i am a banker. 50% of the cashiers' chk we see are fake. you wire, i get moeny first. then i ship the car. a real dealer understands that)
so as a seller, i and most others want convenience. saving 5 hours to me is worth losing 5k or 10k and just be done with it.
as a buyer, i buy the seller, not the car. if i trust the dealer or a private seller, i will pay up. sometimes 2x mkt price if i want the car. to me, the seller IS the car. i rarely go see the cars i buy and i have never done PPI on any cars i bought. i dont think i ever boght a bad car. i just need to chat with you on the phone or exchange a few emails then i will know what type of owner you are. then make a decision to buy or not buy.
but the buying part is fun. find the right car for YOU. and be patient.
the selling part i dont like to sell into private mkt for reasons above. when you sell as many cars as i have, you get tired very quickly.
sometimes you just got to be at the right place right time. i sold one car 3 weeks ago to a member here. i told him all the bad things about the car. he says he will fly up and see it, if it's not worse than i described, he will pay and drive home. he came up , saw, pay and drove home. he got quite a nice deal. he was recommended by someone here i know well. so i know he's not a tire kicker.
I have had just the opposite experience with the many cars I have bought and sold. Actually days of time have been wasted by crooked stealerships. Recently I spend weeks dealing with a crooked Acura dealer in Fort Walton.
Most people buying or selling a car are honest and not primarily motivated by greed. I try to never buy from a dealer because it finances their continued existence. My time is valuable and I would rather deal with a person vs. a company. I also enjoy talking and meeting people who like cars. I have not encountered either a buyer or seller who wasted any time EXCEPT at a dealership. There is also the benny you get to meet some pretty cool folks. Long live Musk !
Wanted to close the loop on this, for what it's worth.
I took much advice from here and kept looking. I met a few private sellers, through this community. Drove a bunch of cars, and ended up buying a '92 C2 from a fellow Rennlister. Great guy, super clean and incredibly well documented car. All around a very pleasurable experience, besides how much money these things cost now! I love the car, and look forward to driving it each and every time. Now I just need some Cup 1 wheels....if you know of any.
Don't worry, I'm not desperate. Knowing these cars were worth 50% of what they're going for today just two years ago, if we hit a recession the demand will change very quick.
Precisely the way I feel about the current conditions. I've been looking for over a year now for a well sorted turnkey C2 coupe, granted my standards are high, but I'm in absolutely no rush to jump in to a purchase like this. All of the best cars I've owned over the years have just fallen in my lap, almost like a meant to be kind of thing.
The market is terribly oversaturated right now and I definitely sense a major recession coming. If it takes me 1-2 years to find the right one then so be it. I'll know it when I find it.
Precisely the way I feel about the current conditions. I've been looking for over a year now for a well sorted turnkey C2 coupe, granted my standards are high, but I'm in absolutely no rush to jump in to a purchase like this. All of the best cars I've owned over the years have just fallen in my lap, almost like a meant to be kind of thing.
The market is terribly oversaturated right now and I definitely sense a major recession coming. If it takes me 1-2 years to find the right one then so be it. I'll know it when I find it.
I don't think you are going to save any money by waiting for a good car. Sure, 100k mile+ C4s with needs are plentiful. But, if you want a C2, low-mileage C4 or late-year/wide-body, buy the first one that meets your criteria. It'll only cost you more the longer you wait.
I don't think you are going to save any money by waiting for a good car. Sure, 100k mile+ C4s with needs are plentiful. But, if you want a C2, low-mileage C4 or late-year/wide-body, buy the first one that meets your criteria. It'll only cost you more the longer you wait.
That's not true, go back to 2007/2008 and look at the prices of classic and specialty cars, they slammed pretty quick when there was minimal demand compared to the previous years. In my minimal years investing, I've been told to avoid buying a stock at its 52 week high, in the case of 964's we're at that point. I'd rather keep looking to find a 964 that's a good value, rather than pulling the trigger on an overpriced car just because of the current hype. If the market happens to get shaken up due to the economy in the near future, its beneficial to be in a buyers position with cash or gold on hand
All markets ebb and flow and classic car prices are no different. However the market has changed considerably pertaining to air cooled Porsche's and specifically the 964 model. There is just not enough supply of the C2/C4 5MT coupes that would result in a major price correction if the economy softened/crashed. There are always deals to be had at all levels of the market however it takes patience, perseverance and luck to put yourself in a position to realize one of these deals. Since life is short and these cars are realizing little to no depreciation, I agree with those that say when you find a good one, pull the trigger. Remember, you never overpay for a nice example, but you can buy it a little too soon.
Some pictures of the recent addition. It needs a through detailing. Paint is original and could do with some love. The car is flawless inside and runs very strong. PPI leak downs were really good. No other big issues. The car is currently with a Porsche specialist in NY having a few OCD things fixed, such at the rocker panel cover that had come lose.
Would love your perspectives on the wheels. It came with the 16' cup type on, but the seller also threw in the Boxter(?) twists which I just put on. They have Toyo 888's on which are really noisy. I'm thinking of selling them and trying to pin down a nice set of Cup 1's. Thoughts welcome.
I don't think you are going to save any money by waiting for a good car. Sure, 100k mile+ C4s with needs are plentiful. But, if you want a C2, low-mileage C4 or late-year/wide-body, buy the first one that meets your criteria. It'll only cost you more the longer you wait.
I completely agree with the longer I wait scenario. Odds are they won't really go down in value but if the market tanks hard you never know.
It's not an issue of money really at this point. It's just finding the right car. So far that hasn't happened.
Would love your perspectives on the wheels. It came with the 16' cup type on, but the seller also threw in the Boxter(?) twists which I just put on. They have Toyo 888's on which are really noisy. I'm thinking of selling them and trying to pin down a nice set of Cup 1's. Thoughts welcome.
Great find; my 17" wheel choices, in order of preference:
OEM Cup 1's
Fikse FM-10
996 10 Spoke Wheel
Sport Classic
I dislike the Boxster twists immensely. I actually don't mind those 16" cups that were OEM with the 964. If the car is lowered correctly they look pretty good.
Great find; my 17" wheel choices, in order of preference:
OEM Cup 1's
Fikse FM-10
996 10 Spoke Wheel
Sport Classic
I dislike the Boxster twists immensely. I actually don't mind those 16" cups that were OEM with the 964. If the car is lowered correctly they look pretty good.
Having fitted the twists I think I agree. I like the size, but I don't think they look totally right for the vintage of the car. I need some Cup 1's!!!
04-13-2016, 10:07 AM
