Buying Experience from user DrewG
10-12-2015, 07:59 PM
#1
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Buying Experience from user DrewG
Dear All,
just wanted to post my experience purchasing a car from a used car sale ad posted on RL....I hope for this forums' sake that this message will help anybody else considering buying a car unseen, using a supposedly reputable shop and PPI.
Having taken delivery of the vehicle today, I immediately noticed a few things. Obviously the car was not advertised as either "show car" nor "concourse" like as the seller alleges I had expected. But it was listed as "a driver's car":
here is a copy of the advertised car:
1) tires - I asked the seller for the tire DOT codes as this would tell one the tires' date of manufacture. The seller replied there was none. After seeing the vehicle today I took this picture...which I think means "44th week of 2003"...I remember telling the seller that I would be using the car to daily drive and drop off/pick up my kids in...would anyone sell a car to use daily with tires that are over 10 yrs old?
just wanted to post my experience purchasing a car from a used car sale ad posted on RL....I hope for this forums' sake that this message will help anybody else considering buying a car unseen, using a supposedly reputable shop and PPI.
Having taken delivery of the vehicle today, I immediately noticed a few things. Obviously the car was not advertised as either "show car" nor "concourse" like as the seller alleges I had expected. But it was listed as "a driver's car":
here is a copy of the advertised car:
Hi all,
I am interested in selling one of my 1991 964 C4 5 Speeds. I have owned this car since January of 2015 and put about 1000 miles on it in that time including a 300+ mile drive over this past weekend. The previous owner had it for 8 years and drove it sparingly, but started it often. I have recently changed the oil with 11 quarts of Brad Penn, bled the clutch, clay bar/polished/waxed the car and replaced the battery (the battery wasn't dead in this car, but it was in my other C4). I have had a couple of dings popped out and there is no damage other than a couple of minor paint blemishes. This is a fantastic car. The only reason for selling is that I have another '91 C4 and am looking to consolidate to one.
The engine pulls hard. The clutch grips hard. The brakes are very effective. It handles amazingly well.
Full disclosure/known issues with car:
-Brake pad light is on on the dash. I have checked the pads and they all have substantial life. I am guessing that the last person to replace the pads didn't replace the sensors.
-The engine leaks a touch of oil. If you leave it for a week, you will find a thimble of oil on the shop floor.
-One of the previous owners had some sort of car phone that had a mount that glued to the dash. There is a 1"x2" area with some dried glue on the dash to the right of the cd player. It is possible that it could come off and not be visible. There is a corresponding phone antenna that is quite small next to the third brake light above the rear window
-There was obviously some paintwork aft of the driver door just above the rocker panel, although the title is clear with no accidents on a car fax report.
Known mods:
-Aftermarket Pioneer CD player.
-Drilled air box
-Boxster/993 Wheels with new tires. (I will sell with the original 964 wheels with minor rashing for $1000 less)
I have owned a number of Porsches and this is a very well sorted driver-status car.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Drew
I am interested in selling one of my 1991 964 C4 5 Speeds. I have owned this car since January of 2015 and put about 1000 miles on it in that time including a 300+ mile drive over this past weekend. The previous owner had it for 8 years and drove it sparingly, but started it often. I have recently changed the oil with 11 quarts of Brad Penn, bled the clutch, clay bar/polished/waxed the car and replaced the battery (the battery wasn't dead in this car, but it was in my other C4). I have had a couple of dings popped out and there is no damage other than a couple of minor paint blemishes. This is a fantastic car. The only reason for selling is that I have another '91 C4 and am looking to consolidate to one.
The engine pulls hard. The clutch grips hard. The brakes are very effective. It handles amazingly well.
Full disclosure/known issues with car:
-Brake pad light is on on the dash. I have checked the pads and they all have substantial life. I am guessing that the last person to replace the pads didn't replace the sensors.
-The engine leaks a touch of oil. If you leave it for a week, you will find a thimble of oil on the shop floor.
-One of the previous owners had some sort of car phone that had a mount that glued to the dash. There is a 1"x2" area with some dried glue on the dash to the right of the cd player. It is possible that it could come off and not be visible. There is a corresponding phone antenna that is quite small next to the third brake light above the rear window
-There was obviously some paintwork aft of the driver door just above the rocker panel, although the title is clear with no accidents on a car fax report.
Known mods:
-Aftermarket Pioneer CD player.
-Drilled air box
-Boxster/993 Wheels with new tires. (I will sell with the original 964 wheels with minor rashing for $1000 less)
I have owned a number of Porsches and this is a very well sorted driver-status car.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Drew
10-12-2015, 08:16 PM
#2
Pro
Thread Starter
here is another thing I noticed today while inspecting the vehicle...as I noticed the tires could be unsafe to use...I checked to see if the compressor kit was in the hood...and look what I discovered inside....from a seller who "having owned many Porsches" said was a compressor kit...
10-12-2015, 08:23 PM
#3
IMHO, if old or age-undisclosed tires are the biggest issue you have with a used car you bought sight unseen, I would say you got off lightly.
PPI's are only as good as the shop who does them, on a given day. This is why I don't put as much faith as others in PPI's (i.e., those who repeat the mantra: always get a PPI) -- at the end of the day, PPI's don't mean much (except for obvious collision damage or corrosion and leakdown tests, assuming they're performed properly) -- but if you're buying sight unseen, it's better than flying blind.
PPI's are only as good as the shop who does them, on a given day. This is why I don't put as much faith as others in PPI's (i.e., those who repeat the mantra: always get a PPI) -- at the end of the day, PPI's don't mean much (except for obvious collision damage or corrosion and leakdown tests, assuming they're performed properly) -- but if you're buying sight unseen, it's better than flying blind.
10-12-2015, 08:55 PM
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It seems as if the purpose of this post is to somehow make the seller out to be a bad person. It sounds as if he was honest in his description. The PPI seems to be the problem you are having the issue with. Perhaps your post should reflect your dissatisfaction with the shop who performed the PPI rather than the seller.
10-12-2015, 09:18 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
It seems as if the purpose of this post is to somehow make the seller out to be a bad person. It sounds as if he was honest in his description. The PPI seems to be the problem you are having the issue with. Perhaps your post should reflect your dissatisfaction with the shop who performed the PPI rather than the seller.
this is not to slander or make accusations...just wanted to share and hopefully not have another RL'er go thru a similar day like mine....
10-12-2015, 09:59 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Surely these are questions you should have asked the company that did the PPI and therefore it's an issue you should take up with them not the seller.
I've only ever had 3 PPI's carried out over the past 35 years of owning cars and only because I did have time to look at the cars myself.
1). Ferrari 550.
Nothing picked up in PPI.
However car needed new tie rods. These aren't available separately, you need to buy the complete steering rack.
Cost: approx. $7000.00
Luckily, I found a solution that saved me $6000.00
Who should I blame, the seller or the guy that carried out the PPI?
2). 964 Texas.
Owned by one of Rennlists well known 964 collectors.
Very comprehensive PPI, loads of pics, but completely put me of the car.
Owner subsequently kept the car and after a good clean and polish most of the issues highlighted in the PPI had all but disappeared.
In this instance, if I'd seen the car with my own eyes, I could well have made the decision to buy the car.
3). 964 Grand Rapids.
Not such a comprehensive PPI report, but again it put me off the car.
It's possible, if I'd seen the car myself, I might have bought it.
Morel of my storey, do not trust SOLELY in the PPI.
I do believe that somewhere on this forum is a list of questions that you should ask or look at when buying a 964 and I guess that's the same list for many cars.
If you didn't ask the guy doing the inspection these questions or in fact he did check them out as part of the inspection, you need to be blaming yourself and the inspector, not the seller.
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
I've only ever had 3 PPI's carried out over the past 35 years of owning cars and only because I did have time to look at the cars myself.
1). Ferrari 550.
Nothing picked up in PPI.
However car needed new tie rods. These aren't available separately, you need to buy the complete steering rack.
Cost: approx. $7000.00
Luckily, I found a solution that saved me $6000.00
Who should I blame, the seller or the guy that carried out the PPI?
2). 964 Texas.
Owned by one of Rennlists well known 964 collectors.
Very comprehensive PPI, loads of pics, but completely put me of the car.
Owner subsequently kept the car and after a good clean and polish most of the issues highlighted in the PPI had all but disappeared.
In this instance, if I'd seen the car with my own eyes, I could well have made the decision to buy the car.
3). 964 Grand Rapids.
Not such a comprehensive PPI report, but again it put me off the car.
It's possible, if I'd seen the car myself, I might have bought it.
Morel of my storey, do not trust SOLELY in the PPI.
I do believe that somewhere on this forum is a list of questions that you should ask or look at when buying a 964 and I guess that's the same list for many cars.
If you didn't ask the guy doing the inspection these questions or in fact he did check them out as part of the inspection, you need to be blaming yourself and the inspector, not the seller.
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
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10-12-2015, 10:13 PM
#8
Banned
Yeah this is kind of hilarious. Do you post 1 star yelp reviews because the toilet paper was not thick enough? There's a million things that could be wrong with a car, and old tires are what you're picking up on? Change the tires and enjoy the car.
10-12-2015, 10:29 PM
#9
Pro
Thread Starter
here is a pic of some water damage in the interior next to the sunroof...does that mean I now need to look for rust there?
I guess I should've just coughed up $55k for the C2...
10-12-2015, 10:31 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Deciding to buy a car without personally seeing and/or driving the car means that the buyer takes responsibility. Caveat emptor.
This is my 3rd 911 yet I am not familiar with some of the stuff that I see folks here post about 911s ... but that's why I frequent this forum. I learn. I am entertained. I am in awe at times. I enjoy the posts ... most times. This thread should not have been started. I'm just sayin...
This is my 3rd 911 yet I am not familiar with some of the stuff that I see folks here post about 911s ... but that's why I frequent this forum. I learn. I am entertained. I am in awe at times. I enjoy the posts ... most times. This thread should not have been started. I'm just sayin...
10-12-2015, 10:35 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
....If you didn't ask the guy doing the inspection these questions or in fact he did check them out as part of the inspection, you need to be blaming yourself and the inspector, not the seller.
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
10-12-2015, 10:39 PM
#12
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[QUOTE=luckyJ;12666539]yes, I completely agree with you....but think there is something called misrepresentation in this country...no harm in full disclosure, as one's expectations are managed...but advertising something as X and delivering Z...whether it's a Porsche or toilet paper?...
I think the thing everyone is zeroing in on here is not that there are issues with the car or that the PPI missed some items. It is that you seem to be bashing a fellow Rennlister instead of realizing that the shop missed a few things and that you bought a 25 year old car with a lot of miles that isn't perfect.
We all hope you get your car sorted quickly and that you can get out and enjoy it.
I think the thing everyone is zeroing in on here is not that there are issues with the car or that the PPI missed some items. It is that you seem to be bashing a fellow Rennlister instead of realizing that the shop missed a few things and that you bought a 25 year old car with a lot of miles that isn't perfect.
We all hope you get your car sorted quickly and that you can get out and enjoy it.
10-12-2015, 10:53 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
so I looked inside the vehicle for previous service/maintenance records...and the seller specifies in the contract that maintenance records will be with the vehicle...there are basically 3 stamps from 1995/1996 ....nothing more...
10-12-2015, 11:04 PM
#14
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Did he say there were good records? Not all of our cars have good records, especially when they have gone through multiple owners. If that is all he had...and he included them...then he did indeed provide you with the vehicle maintenance records like your 'contract' states. You really seem to be reaching here to find someone else to blame.
10-12-2015, 11:16 PM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
Surely these are questions you should have asked the company that did the PPI and therefore it's an issue you should take up with them not the seller.
I've only ever had 3 PPI's carried out over the past 35 years of owning cars and only because I did have time to look at the cars myself.
1). Ferrari 550.
Nothing picked up in PPI.
However car needed new tie rods. These aren't available separately, you need to buy the complete steering rack.
Cost: approx. $7000.00
Luckily, I found a solution that saved me $6000.00
Who should I blame, the seller or the guy that carried out the PPI?
2). 964 Texas.
Owned by one of Rennlists well known 964 collectors.
Very comprehensive PPI, loads of pics, but completely put me of the car.
Owner subsequently kept the car and after a good clean and polish most of the issues highlighted in the PPI had all but disappeared.
In this instance, if I'd seen the car with my own eyes, I could well have made the decision to buy the car.
3). 964 Grand Rapids.
Not such a comprehensive PPI report, but again it put me off the car.
It's possible, if I'd seen the car myself, I might have bought it.
Morel of my storey, do not trust SOLELY in the PPI.
I do believe that somewhere on this forum is a list of questions that you should ask or look at when buying a 964 and I guess that's the same list for many cars.
If you didn't ask the guy doing the inspection these questions or in fact he did check them out as part of the inspection, you need to be blaming yourself and the inspector, not the seller.
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
I've only ever had 3 PPI's carried out over the past 35 years of owning cars and only because I did have time to look at the cars myself.
1). Ferrari 550.
Nothing picked up in PPI.
However car needed new tie rods. These aren't available separately, you need to buy the complete steering rack.
Cost: approx. $7000.00
Luckily, I found a solution that saved me $6000.00
Who should I blame, the seller or the guy that carried out the PPI?
2). 964 Texas.
Owned by one of Rennlists well known 964 collectors.
Very comprehensive PPI, loads of pics, but completely put me of the car.
Owner subsequently kept the car and after a good clean and polish most of the issues highlighted in the PPI had all but disappeared.
In this instance, if I'd seen the car with my own eyes, I could well have made the decision to buy the car.
3). 964 Grand Rapids.
Not such a comprehensive PPI report, but again it put me off the car.
It's possible, if I'd seen the car myself, I might have bought it.
Morel of my storey, do not trust SOLELY in the PPI.
I do believe that somewhere on this forum is a list of questions that you should ask or look at when buying a 964 and I guess that's the same list for many cars.
If you didn't ask the guy doing the inspection these questions or in fact he did check them out as part of the inspection, you need to be blaming yourself and the inspector, not the seller.
What if the seller had been an elderly lady selling her dearly departed husbands car?
Did he say there were good records? Not all of our cars have good records, especially when they have gone through multiple owners. If that is all he had...and he included them...then he did indeed provide you with the vehicle maintenance records like your 'contract' states. You really seem to be reaching here to find someone else to blame.