Black Ice, Spin, and Splash
12-11-2014, 06:19 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Dave,
Glad that you and your sons are fine. For those that do not know Dave, he is a helpful and knowledgeable Porsche guy, especially to many of the NE guys who have shown up to make use of his Hammer and the complete workshop manual.
Glad that you and your sons are fine. For those that do not know Dave, he is a helpful and knowledgeable Porsche guy, especially to many of the NE guys who have shown up to make use of his Hammer and the complete workshop manual.
12-12-2014, 12:46 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
12-12-2014, 12:54 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Thanks, everyone, for the support.
The process has begun. The shop that towed the car is trying to hold on to it for their $$/day storage fee. The insurance company is dragging their feet. The estimator has yet to contact me. Shop thinks its salvageable; trying to get car moved there. I'm thinking that I'll move the car to my house so I can negotiate a settlement from a stopped dollar-clock position.
Fortunately, I have a beater car to fall back on. Unfortunately, I'm now driving a beater.
Although, the truth is, very few people get to enjoy a 911 every day for 9.5 years. It was a fine car, and it put a smile on my face every time I turned the key. I'm thankful for having had the experience.
The process has begun. The shop that towed the car is trying to hold on to it for their $$/day storage fee. The insurance company is dragging their feet. The estimator has yet to contact me. Shop thinks its salvageable; trying to get car moved there. I'm thinking that I'll move the car to my house so I can negotiate a settlement from a stopped dollar-clock position.
Fortunately, I have a beater car to fall back on. Unfortunately, I'm now driving a beater.
Although, the truth is, very few people get to enjoy a 911 every day for 9.5 years. It was a fine car, and it put a smile on my face every time I turned the key. I'm thankful for having had the experience.
They were offering me $28k for my C4 at the time and we negotiated $45k....Remember the insurance pays the tax back to you as well.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
12-12-2014, 03:05 PM
#34
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks, guys. Truth is, I learned everything I know from you all. This is a great place.
As for the storage fee, I'm told that the insurance company has an agreement with the garage that towed the car. Zero storage fee. The tow company told me I had to pay $65/day to take the car. I told them to talk to the insurance company.
I also received a call from the insurance company yesterday to let me know that they had decided the car was a total loss and were calling to let me know that they were taking the car to a wrecker. Fortunately I picked the car up yesterday and towed it to my home.
As for the storage fee, I'm told that the insurance company has an agreement with the garage that towed the car. Zero storage fee. The tow company told me I had to pay $65/day to take the car. I told them to talk to the insurance company.
I also received a call from the insurance company yesterday to let me know that they had decided the car was a total loss and were calling to let me know that they were taking the car to a wrecker. Fortunately I picked the car up yesterday and towed it to my home.
12-12-2014, 11:45 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
First - glad to know that nobody was hurt, of course.
Second - guys - being prepared is the best way to be protected. I worked with my normal everyday insurance company (American Family FYI - not affiliated) to make sure my car has an agreed value policy in place - for this exact scenario - in case something happens. No haggling and no fighting if the car is stolen or totaled. The value is already set. And surprisingly there was no (or minimal) increase to my rate. Call your agent and ask. It's peace of mind.
Second - guys - being prepared is the best way to be protected. I worked with my normal everyday insurance company (American Family FYI - not affiliated) to make sure my car has an agreed value policy in place - for this exact scenario - in case something happens. No haggling and no fighting if the car is stolen or totaled. The value is already set. And surprisingly there was no (or minimal) increase to my rate. Call your agent and ask. It's peace of mind.
12-13-2014, 04:48 AM
#36
Instructor
Hi Dave,
I too wanna say thanks for all your technical posts here that helped me out a lot when I had to fix something on my car.
I'm sure with your skills your car will be back running again in no time. Where I live we get floods almost every year and last flood we had in Jan 2013 it was about adult-waist deep and most cars in my neighborhood were flooded. In one month time, those flooded cars were back running again, I recoqnize the cars because they are my neighbors. I'm sure you can get the car running again shortly.
Here is some pictures, btw that's my neighbor.
I too wanna say thanks for all your technical posts here that helped me out a lot when I had to fix something on my car.
I'm sure with your skills your car will be back running again in no time. Where I live we get floods almost every year and last flood we had in Jan 2013 it was about adult-waist deep and most cars in my neighborhood were flooded. In one month time, those flooded cars were back running again, I recoqnize the cars because they are my neighbors. I'm sure you can get the car running again shortly.
Here is some pictures, btw that's my neighbor.
12-13-2014, 09:24 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Detroit (Rock City); 1990 C4
Posts: 1,710
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I've kept this since 1999; apologies in advance for the length. Not my words, obviously.
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:17:26 -0500
From: Mitch
Subject: [ALL] Re:Insurance Help for anyone with totaled vehicles
Message-ID: <#38>
Here is a snippet from the local N. Texas Club DSM chapter about
insurance
help from Greg R. how used to work as an adjuster:
Hope this helps give you guys some information. Let me know how you like
it. I have another on how they insurance companies base their rates and
other general info.
Information on how to deal with an Insurance company after a loss.
Total Loss Vehicles:
To decide if a car is a total loss, the company figures out what the
value is
minus the salvage value. If this value is less then the repair costs,
your car is considered un-economically repairable (totaled).
If it is a borderline (meaning the 2 numbers are close) you can make the
difference. If you don't want it saved just tell them. Speak to a
supervisor if you need to. Become a polite, but consistent irritation
and they will give in. Start picking all sorts of things that you think
were caused by the loss (real or imagined). Start explaining how you
won't except the car unless the repairs are perfect. Tell them about how
you think every ding and little dent was caused by flying debris from
the loss. On a fire/flood loss tell them about a friends car that they
never could get the smell out of. Tell them about how the car never ran
right and it fried the computer and the stereo. They will soon get the
hint.
If you don't want your car totaled you do have some choices. There is
really only 1 good reason to save a borderline car and have it work out
to your advantage. If there is no major damage (meaning frame or
suspension) and you are really attached, you should make them aware of
your desire. You are going to have to talk them into it and probably
sign a release after they get a guaranteed bid (this means the shop will
do the repairs for this amount or eat the cost over-run). from the shop.
It is usually better to let them total it and then keep the salvage
(more on that later).
Give them a few days to start getting a value for the car. Here is your
dose of reality. The car has a value. This is the actual cash value.
Meaning the actual value that someone would pay for it, in the condition
it's in, in the area it's in. It doesn't matter that you were wronged
and it's not your fault. It doesn't matter that your car is the only one
of it's kind (scarcity doesn't equal more value). It doesn't matter that
2000 miles away, in whatever car show, you saw one like it sold for a
million dollars. You know more about your car then the adjuster. Use
this to your advantage. The insurance company is lazy by nature. They
enter your cars information in a computer (after getting the blue book
values) and send it to an evaluation company. Their computer has car
adds stored in it. It finds similar cars to yours, spits out those adds,
comes up with an average based on those cars and values stored in their
database. This is the value they send back to your insurance company. If
your adjuster has extra time they will call the adds and check out the
sale price (not the advertised price). When the adjuster comes back with
a value you will be armed with better information. You should have all
ready done your research. You need to look for information on cars
similar to yours. You want adds from cars of similar model year, options
and mileage. You want hi-priced cars. You don't owe them any favors,
don't help them by giving them adds that low ball your case. They aren't
going to show you the higher priced ones. Cars that a little worse then
yours but asking a higher price help out more. It's hard to talk you
down if you can show that cars with more miles and less options then
your car are going for more then they are offering you. You need to be
realistic on this. Don't find a show car to give them when yours is a
daily driver. Call the adds and look at the ones that support your case.
Document everything. Nothing gets the value higher then a stack of paper
dropped on an adjusters desk (which then usually goes to a supervisors
desk). This also helps to educate you on what your car is worth.
Remember that all the race parts you added to your car don't increase
the value much at all. Modifications can add some value, but $4500 in
huge wings, flares, skirts etc... don't add $4500 value to your car and
may take away from the value. This applies more to stereos. A $5000
stereo in a $5000 car doesn't make the car worth $10,000.
Another thing that helps is to ask for their examples and their
evaluation (you are allowed to have it. Call the numbers on the add to
see the condition of the car and how it compares to yours. If you can
show that their evaluation is off and those adds were nothing like your
car all their numbers are suspect. Another tip: time is on your side.
The longer you wait the worse it looks to have that file sitting around
on that persons desk. Don't sign anything giving them permission to
remove the car from the tow yard. The longer the car sits there, the
more they have to pay for storage and the more likely they are to
settle. Keep hitting them with more information and keep on them. Be
polite and firm. If the adjuster is rude &/or doesn't seem to be cutting
it, move up to a supervisor. You just have to show them that they are
going to spend more money saying no then saying yes. A HUGE plus in your
favor is the old 'Squeaky wheel gets the oil'. Keep moving up the chain
of command. They will get more nervous. No one likes to get a call from
the higher ups asking why this insured is calling them. I've seen it
time and time again. Your supervisor gets a call from higher up saying
"Just get rid of it. Do whatever it takes." Never get rude, just advise
them you'd like to speak with the next higher person in the chain as you
aren't satisfied. Don't bother with an attorney. The attorney is not
used to cars, repairs, actual cash value, depreciation, options,
condition of your car vs. the examples, etc... It may help on a medical
claim, but on a car you will come out worse as they will take their
third and they won't get the car value raised by a third.
Last tip on a total loss claim. If you have a lot of money in
modifications to your car you will probably want to keep salvage. This
pays off if you are smart. Have a place you can store the car. Make sure
you are realistic on how much you can sell the parts off your car for
(or on the amount of money you will save by keeping the parts for your
next car). It usually doesn't pay to try and rebuild the car. Your car
will have a salvaged title (making it harder to insure or sell).
Also, call some salvage yards for bids on your car and call the company
that your insurance company called. Sometimes the salvage company will
pay less then what they originally bid for and this can save you money.
They will take the salvage amount from your check if you keep salvage.
This is because they would normally get that amount from the salvage
yard. Move the car from the tow yard AS SOON as you settle. The
insurance company is responsible for the tow and storage fees up to the
settlement date. Make sure they have called the tow yard and confirmed
the amount that is due so you can pick-up your car.
Remember, You are just a file on a desk. Your adjuster doesn't hate you
they just want to get the file handled. To the company it's all a game
of numbers. They know that the more claims they can settle for a lower
price the more money they make. You just have to show them you are going
to be that small percentage that knows what they are talking about.
Don't forget it's just a business. It's not wrong or right. There is no
reason to open a business that loses money. They aren't out to get you,
they aren't evil, they just get paid to do their job (just like you).
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:17:26 -0500
From: Mitch
Subject: [ALL] Re:Insurance Help for anyone with totaled vehicles
Message-ID: <#38>
Here is a snippet from the local N. Texas Club DSM chapter about
insurance
help from Greg R. how used to work as an adjuster:
Hope this helps give you guys some information. Let me know how you like
it. I have another on how they insurance companies base their rates and
other general info.
Information on how to deal with an Insurance company after a loss.
Total Loss Vehicles:
To decide if a car is a total loss, the company figures out what the
value is
minus the salvage value. If this value is less then the repair costs,
your car is considered un-economically repairable (totaled).
If it is a borderline (meaning the 2 numbers are close) you can make the
difference. If you don't want it saved just tell them. Speak to a
supervisor if you need to. Become a polite, but consistent irritation
and they will give in. Start picking all sorts of things that you think
were caused by the loss (real or imagined). Start explaining how you
won't except the car unless the repairs are perfect. Tell them about how
you think every ding and little dent was caused by flying debris from
the loss. On a fire/flood loss tell them about a friends car that they
never could get the smell out of. Tell them about how the car never ran
right and it fried the computer and the stereo. They will soon get the
hint.
If you don't want your car totaled you do have some choices. There is
really only 1 good reason to save a borderline car and have it work out
to your advantage. If there is no major damage (meaning frame or
suspension) and you are really attached, you should make them aware of
your desire. You are going to have to talk them into it and probably
sign a release after they get a guaranteed bid (this means the shop will
do the repairs for this amount or eat the cost over-run). from the shop.
It is usually better to let them total it and then keep the salvage
(more on that later).
Give them a few days to start getting a value for the car. Here is your
dose of reality. The car has a value. This is the actual cash value.
Meaning the actual value that someone would pay for it, in the condition
it's in, in the area it's in. It doesn't matter that you were wronged
and it's not your fault. It doesn't matter that your car is the only one
of it's kind (scarcity doesn't equal more value). It doesn't matter that
2000 miles away, in whatever car show, you saw one like it sold for a
million dollars. You know more about your car then the adjuster. Use
this to your advantage. The insurance company is lazy by nature. They
enter your cars information in a computer (after getting the blue book
values) and send it to an evaluation company. Their computer has car
adds stored in it. It finds similar cars to yours, spits out those adds,
comes up with an average based on those cars and values stored in their
database. This is the value they send back to your insurance company. If
your adjuster has extra time they will call the adds and check out the
sale price (not the advertised price). When the adjuster comes back with
a value you will be armed with better information. You should have all
ready done your research. You need to look for information on cars
similar to yours. You want adds from cars of similar model year, options
and mileage. You want hi-priced cars. You don't owe them any favors,
don't help them by giving them adds that low ball your case. They aren't
going to show you the higher priced ones. Cars that a little worse then
yours but asking a higher price help out more. It's hard to talk you
down if you can show that cars with more miles and less options then
your car are going for more then they are offering you. You need to be
realistic on this. Don't find a show car to give them when yours is a
daily driver. Call the adds and look at the ones that support your case.
Document everything. Nothing gets the value higher then a stack of paper
dropped on an adjusters desk (which then usually goes to a supervisors
desk). This also helps to educate you on what your car is worth.
Remember that all the race parts you added to your car don't increase
the value much at all. Modifications can add some value, but $4500 in
huge wings, flares, skirts etc... don't add $4500 value to your car and
may take away from the value. This applies more to stereos. A $5000
stereo in a $5000 car doesn't make the car worth $10,000.
Another thing that helps is to ask for their examples and their
evaluation (you are allowed to have it. Call the numbers on the add to
see the condition of the car and how it compares to yours. If you can
show that their evaluation is off and those adds were nothing like your
car all their numbers are suspect. Another tip: time is on your side.
The longer you wait the worse it looks to have that file sitting around
on that persons desk. Don't sign anything giving them permission to
remove the car from the tow yard. The longer the car sits there, the
more they have to pay for storage and the more likely they are to
settle. Keep hitting them with more information and keep on them. Be
polite and firm. If the adjuster is rude &/or doesn't seem to be cutting
it, move up to a supervisor. You just have to show them that they are
going to spend more money saying no then saying yes. A HUGE plus in your
favor is the old 'Squeaky wheel gets the oil'. Keep moving up the chain
of command. They will get more nervous. No one likes to get a call from
the higher ups asking why this insured is calling them. I've seen it
time and time again. Your supervisor gets a call from higher up saying
"Just get rid of it. Do whatever it takes." Never get rude, just advise
them you'd like to speak with the next higher person in the chain as you
aren't satisfied. Don't bother with an attorney. The attorney is not
used to cars, repairs, actual cash value, depreciation, options,
condition of your car vs. the examples, etc... It may help on a medical
claim, but on a car you will come out worse as they will take their
third and they won't get the car value raised by a third.
Last tip on a total loss claim. If you have a lot of money in
modifications to your car you will probably want to keep salvage. This
pays off if you are smart. Have a place you can store the car. Make sure
you are realistic on how much you can sell the parts off your car for
(or on the amount of money you will save by keeping the parts for your
next car). It usually doesn't pay to try and rebuild the car. Your car
will have a salvaged title (making it harder to insure or sell).
Also, call some salvage yards for bids on your car and call the company
that your insurance company called. Sometimes the salvage company will
pay less then what they originally bid for and this can save you money.
They will take the salvage amount from your check if you keep salvage.
This is because they would normally get that amount from the salvage
yard. Move the car from the tow yard AS SOON as you settle. The
insurance company is responsible for the tow and storage fees up to the
settlement date. Make sure they have called the tow yard and confirmed
the amount that is due so you can pick-up your car.
Remember, You are just a file on a desk. Your adjuster doesn't hate you
they just want to get the file handled. To the company it's all a game
of numbers. They know that the more claims they can settle for a lower
price the more money they make. You just have to show them you are going
to be that small percentage that knows what they are talking about.
Don't forget it's just a business. It's not wrong or right. There is no
reason to open a business that loses money. They aren't out to get you,
they aren't evil, they just get paid to do their job (just like you).
12-20-2014, 12:31 AM
#38
Rennlist Member
Dave,
Just catching up on some RL reading. Like you, I don't participate like I did in the old days. The story was just plain scary. So happy the boys are OK. I know the feeling of going over and over and over and over the accident in my head.
I am really glad to hear that you retrieved the car from the insurance company. You might recall that I had an incident on ice with my red C4 (The Informant...) back in 2009. The repair estimate was phenomenal, and my insurance company promptly offered to pay me the money and they would haul the car away. I couldn't let go of the car, was afraid of making a rash decision. I asked if I could keep the car, the adjuster seemed shocked that I would want it, and she said she would reduce the settlement by $7000. The car sat parked in my garage for 3.5 years (it still ran and drove, so I would "exercise" it). I finally got the energy and funds and parts, and it is back on the road. So happy that I didn't give up on it after the accident.
Once again, so happy to hear that you and your boys are OK. And the car is still at home.
Just catching up on some RL reading. Like you, I don't participate like I did in the old days. The story was just plain scary. So happy the boys are OK. I know the feeling of going over and over and over and over the accident in my head.
I am really glad to hear that you retrieved the car from the insurance company. You might recall that I had an incident on ice with my red C4 (The Informant...) back in 2009. The repair estimate was phenomenal, and my insurance company promptly offered to pay me the money and they would haul the car away. I couldn't let go of the car, was afraid of making a rash decision. I asked if I could keep the car, the adjuster seemed shocked that I would want it, and she said she would reduce the settlement by $7000. The car sat parked in my garage for 3.5 years (it still ran and drove, so I would "exercise" it). I finally got the energy and funds and parts, and it is back on the road. So happy that I didn't give up on it after the accident.
Once again, so happy to hear that you and your boys are OK. And the car is still at home.
01-13-2015, 11:56 AM
#39
Instructor
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dartmouth, MA
Posts: 170
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Received 0 Likes
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0 Posts
Happy to help if I can.
Eight or so years ago my 88 3.2L coupe was deemed totaled by my insurance company. The field guy who looked at the car (not an employee, but a subcontractor who had worked for my ins co for many years) told me that this was one of the cleanest 911s he'd seen in years and that, in his report to the ins co, he'll recommend a value of $xxx.
Long story short, they initially offered me ~60% of what "their" guy recommended. After three months of back and forth, they finally came through with what I considered to be a fair settlement.
Did I mention that this settlement offer came only after I had sent them a 20pp document that documented my arguments regarding value?
I'm happy to discuss with you some of the resources that I used. if you're interested, pm me.
Best,
Phil
Eight or so years ago my 88 3.2L coupe was deemed totaled by my insurance company. The field guy who looked at the car (not an employee, but a subcontractor who had worked for my ins co for many years) told me that this was one of the cleanest 911s he'd seen in years and that, in his report to the ins co, he'll recommend a value of $xxx.
Long story short, they initially offered me ~60% of what "their" guy recommended. After three months of back and forth, they finally came through with what I considered to be a fair settlement.
Did I mention that this settlement offer came only after I had sent them a 20pp document that documented my arguments regarding value?
I'm happy to discuss with you some of the resources that I used. if you're interested, pm me.
Best,
Phil
03-15-2015, 07:18 PM
#40
Drifting
Thread Starter
Still trying to settle with insurance company . . . looking to see if car has any value as is:
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...assifieds-136/
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...assifieds-136/
03-15-2015, 09:56 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
I'm glad you and your family are safe.
This is the perfect reason to get agreed value insurance. I insure my classic cars with Leland West (PCA discount) and can pretty much set the value where I want. I also make it a point to raise the value each year if the actual replacement cost has gone up.
This is the perfect reason to get agreed value insurance. I insure my classic cars with Leland West (PCA discount) and can pretty much set the value where I want. I also make it a point to raise the value each year if the actual replacement cost has gone up.
03-16-2015, 06:15 AM
#42
Good luck with the car Dave.
Whatever happens with the car, in a few years there will be no regret for sharing such an adventure with the boys!
I'm pretty sure they may regret the car, but not the night: straight from a Dona Tartt novel!
Whatever happens with the car, in a few years there will be no regret for sharing such an adventure with the boys!
I'm pretty sure they may regret the car, but not the night: straight from a Dona Tartt novel!
03-21-2015, 11:03 AM
#44
Drifting
Thread Starter
The car has been sold to a local high-end restoration shop (Premier Restorations NY). Not sure if it'll be back as a club racer or a fully restored personal vehicle with some extras, but I'll be able to be part of the process and get to see the car come back to life.
Sad to see the car go, but happy that it's in good hands and that I'll, at least, get a chance to drive it again one of these days.
Thank you, all, for the support, encouragement, and comradery.
Perhaps I'll be back in a 911 one day, but for now I'm Porche-less. It's been a hell of a good time!
Thanks,
Dave
Sad to see the car go, but happy that it's in good hands and that I'll, at least, get a chance to drive it again one of these days.
Thank you, all, for the support, encouragement, and comradery.
Perhaps I'll be back in a 911 one day, but for now I'm Porche-less. It's been a hell of a good time!
Thanks,
Dave
03-21-2015, 07:38 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Cheers
Matt