tbennett017

I just rebuilt my pedal cluster with a new clutch M/C, and the new bushings and roll pin. I can't emphasize enough how much better my car feels. It has completely transformed how the car relates. The clutch is lighter, and it operates smoothly through the whole pedal range. I hadn't realized how the crappy M/C had been limiting how I drive the car, as it would get cranky when the car got hot... feeling kind of crabby and bitchy. The bushings were out of round, and the M/C that came out would hang up and get leaky.

I find my self shifting more now, and keeping the car at optimal revs. A three hour drive was more entertaining yesterday, working the gears. It seems like I can now feel the take up point better, and the whole thing is easier to deal with.

Thanks to Wachuko's photos : https://rennlist.com/forums/6764098-post21.html

and parts from Steve at Rennsport Systems http://www.rennsportsystems.com

...it's an easy job to do... and completely well worth it.

You will want a Motiv power bleeder, but if you don't have one already for the 964, you ought to anyway.

Pkblu

Can you elaborate on her bitchiness when hot? Curious cause I have similar issues when mine gets hot too. First starts to get difficult to get into, then second and etc.

Goughary

+1 on the pedal cluster rebuild. I couldn't believe how much better mine was after dojng it. I would have loved to have done it all with bronze bushings though. But I couldn't find a kit (all the bronze bushing kits are for earlier cars) so I used oem plastic bushings. Still made a massive difference.

tbennett017

Bitchiness: hard to describe, but you are getting part of it.. it would feel like the pedal action wasn't actually opening up the clutch all the way at the other end... like it wasn't pumping all the fluid well... Thus engaging gears when hot was more clunky and more gear-ish.

But also it would start to feel 'notchy'... like the pedal would hang up on small bumps on the way down and back.. like the bore of the M/C isn't smooth anymore... and I confirmed this with the old M/C out of the car, the cylinder action is lumpy and not smooth through the travel, though the new one is...

bmohr

so I'm going to rebuild my pedal assembly and replace my MC as it too is very creaky when hot and hangs a little bit sometimes. Anyway, my question is when I replace the MC how much fluid do I need to push the air out and bleed? I've never bled the system before so I'm a noob with this process, although it seems fairly straight forward. My brakes were flushed just a couple thousand miles ago so I don't think I need to push it all out. If I do need to replace it all, how many liters do I need?

davidwilson11

Right, tbennett017 , Pkblu

ive been having this problem, when the car get hot, usually after a city based drive home I start to lose first gear then second. almost to the point where I think I might not actually get the gear. I have replaced the slave but not the master. Also had the lines cleaned out to make sure that wasn't a problem. I have bought the rebush kit and roll pin. should I be looking at doing the master cylinder also. My clutch is one of the heaviest clutches I have ever felt. Haven't driven another 964 to see how heavy they are but mine is almost at the point where I need to really put pressure on it.

How does that compare to both your experiences?

Cheers
David

JasonAndreas

But did you replace the soft line that attaches to the slave cylinder, that is usually what fails from heat.

davidwilson11

Hi Jason,

I did have that replaced with the slave cylinder, the thought at the time was that this might be the problem. I was going to get a braided stainless one but the Porsche indi decided that a standard flexi would suffice.

Now that I'm thinking about it......the problem never went after I had this all changed. I wonder if he actually swapped the flexi at all.

If he did I'm still head scratching as to what the problem is, clutch?

I'm open to ideas to help as I've had to stop driving the car.

tbennett017

@davidwilson11, yes you describe a similar experience. My pedal is still heavy compared to some other cars, but somewhat lighter than it was... also smoother etc. As @JasonAndreas mentions, do replace the soft line in addition to the slave while you're in there.

@bmohr, Have a quart of fluid on hand... you may want to search and read up on the Motiv bleeder as a tool, as it made the job so very easy and neat. The takeoff for the clutch fluid in the reservoir in the frunk is much higher than for the brakes. I attached the Motive bleeder with just air in it to start, and opened up the bleeder at the slave cylinder, and let the air push all the old fluid through the old master, then the lines to the slave, so the system was only air. Then taking apart the master was much cleaner as there wasn't a lot of fluid to come out... Then replace all the parts, and use the Motiv to push new fluid through the system, after topping it up at the reservoir. The hydraulic part of the job only really took 20 mins that way. Also it's really a good idea to avoid pumping a system from the master, as it causes other problems like seal damage...

bmohr

nice, info much appreciated tbennett017! I was waiting to hear about the fluid amounts before ordering the motive bleeder so I can purchase everything together. Looks like I will be using the ATE Typ 200. I assume that product is fine? Any feedback on using it possibly?

Rocket Rob

ATE brake fluid works well for me. As for how much to order? If you are doing a full flush, I would say you will want to plan on using 1 quart. Typically, its less than that but you don't want to run out of fresh fluid while you are mid-process.

bmohr

wow, that process was a pain in the ***. Just the awkward space and amount of room to negotiate the petal cluster was horrible. I mean could they have used a longer thread on the hard line into the master cylinder? lol Jaysus. Then getting the slave bleed nipple closed with the hose attached was impossible for some reason. Had to pull the hose off with a drip pan below to turn it shut. Probably used(wasted) a full liter of fluid, but hey it's bled nicely and works great. The notchiness is gone but I must say my soft line into the slave looked old as dirt. No signs of bulges but it looked its age. I wish I had one on hand to replace. Looks like I will tackle that another time.

tbennett017

Sorry to hear you had issues. I did mine without losing a drop... I have a plastic gallon jug with a relatively long clear tube for collecting the runoff... the diameter of the tube is a snug fit on the end of the nipple. I managed to get the wrench on then the tube afterwards, leaving room to open/close.

Hopefully that helps when you do the soft line later.

davidwilson11

I took my pedal cluster out at the weekend, tight but managed it okay. Left the master in place so I didn't have to bleed it (just yet). Got a new stainless line to replace the flexi to the slave so will do it then.

Taking apart the pedal assembly was fairly easy, new bushes ordered for clutch and brake pedals.

Quick question? The screw on the clutch pedal is fully wound in, is this right?

tbennett017

Are you talking about the kinematic adjustment screw? That all depends on your setup/preferences, if so.