BrianU

There is a thread over on Pelican I've been following since it asks a good question for those of us who are still on the outside looking in and don't have the car of our dreams parked in the garage yet. I generally just lurk over there since the crowd seems more hostile than over here, but I decided to post there today and thought I'd share the same thoughts here for your input. Some of you may recall I have been considering the purchase of a 94 cab from a friend of a friend. I am still in negotiations with the wife on that, but in the meantime...

Recall the car is pretty well sorted, has 88k miles, clean inside and out, has had clutch and top replaced in the last 10k and brakes, tires, and steering rack within the last 2k. I have not had a PPI done yet but I suspect it's got original suspension and I know it is at least due for a 15k service and valve adjust ($1,200 where I live). I don't know how much oil it consumes but I don't think it is much. He wants $30k for the car. I am 45 and grew up with pictures of the 80s Carreras on my bedroom wall so this is the shape I am in love with. This will be my first Porsche and I am not (yet) handy enough with tools to do much work on it myself.

When I look at my "in" price of $30k (that is before negotiating the $1200 sevice and anything that may come up in a PPI) plus things I would want to do to get it fully sorted upon taking ownership such as the D-ZUG HID kit, a Bluetooth head unit, and any rubber bits/hoses etc that need replacing plus the eventual cost of replacing suspension with Bilstein PSS10 or KW V3 plus fresh mounts and bushings for another $5-10k, suddenly I have $40k in the car which could buy me a nice low miles 997.1 with IMS bearing done. And that doesn't even account for the fact that the 964 is approaching 100k miles and could need a rebuild before too long.

Granted the 997 doesn't "do it" for me like the classic 964 shape and air-cooled sound, but how much is emotion and passion for a car from a certain era worth? I figure the depreciation curve of the 997 has not flattened yet, but given the price support in the market from the older 964 and 993 cars, are they ever really going to be worth less than an above average 964?

Jjm4life

Do you plan on keeping the car, or selling it?

964 most likely won't ever be worth less than what they are now. This isnt to say the market will keep going up and up, but its a better bet than a 997 gaining in value anytime soon ( short of gt series cars).

mf_rsr

...the moment you ask that question! Heart over mind and all that :-)

BrianU

Keeping, without question.

tcsracing1

The 964s are indeed getting close to the point that they are not a bargin 911 anymore.
By the time you buy it, service it and replace a few items it can cost one higher then what it is.

This market is good news for those who already own them, but bad news for those of us looking….

A simple 964 C2 coupe (with miles) can creep up to the price of a really nice Cayman S or a 997 Carrera 2. Even a nice 993 which is a slightly better car.
Sure the water pumper cars will go down in value, but they will be more user friendly and perhaps less costly to maintain given the age difference.
Also, for $40-50k to spend on a car you wish to drive daily and the odd track day the 964 is no spring chicken. By the time you pay $30k on one you can spend another $10k easy. So you are in the ball park of some of these newer porsches.

I think what we need to remember is that this is the price of entry to be apart of the air cooled club. So not an apples to apples comparo (but for the wallet it sure is.)

Is this club really everything it is cracked up to be?
Is it crazy to pay $30k plus for a 100k mile + 964 that requires TLC?

You really gotta want it and plan to keep it.
Im just not sure if the value is there (for the short term anyhow)?

I am still looking however

StephenJ

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but isn't $30k a bit steep for a car of that mileage/condition? If it's due for a valve adjustment and leaks an unknown amount of oil, you should consider trying to knock down that price a bit. Granted those are things you could potentially clear up in a PPI. Check out the 964 Prices thread to get an idea of what it's probably worth.

creaturecat

30 will look like a deal, a year from now. For a decent one.
Mark my words.

Jjm4life

Then what difference does the market make? When you're driving the car you've always wanted, will how much you paid for it really matter?

At the very least, should you need to sell it years from now, if properly maintained you should come out just fine. Take it from me ( seriously read my recent horror story thread haha) buy the best car you can find and enjoy the hell out of it.

sonett43

compare maintenance costs on a 964 to a cayman, boxster or 997, even just tires and brakes, the 964 will be a bargain, no doubt....and if you prefer the classic lines, the air cooled story, it seems even at next year's prices, the 964 is a deal.

BrianU

Mileage to me seems on the low end, relatively speaking. Valve adjusts are needed what, every 10k? 12k? So in other words, fairly regularly if it's driven, right? And the current owner says it doesn't leak, but I haven't seen where he parks it and I am not sure how often he needs to add a quart, so in that regard it is an unknown, yes.

I have looked at the spreadsheet on the prices thread, and have used Hemmings for guidance as well, as well as Rennlist and Pelican classifieds. Hemmings have $33k for an "excellent" car and $24k for "good" and this one definitely leans towards the excellent side of the spectrum, so I do not think $30k is out of line.

There is a 1992 C4 cab same color w/66k down at an LA dealer asking $45k. Their ebay auction ended recently without the reserve being met and that was with bids over $33k. Lower miles, sure, but 2 years older also. Granted that's at a dealer and they claim to have gone through it completely and it is a "no excuses" car, but still, to me it validates the price of the one i am considering.

Dr Mitch

If you prefer the 964, it's the one to get!

I would look at the "need to do's" vs the "want to do's" when calculating your costs - absolutely, if you are purchasing a $30k car that won't be roadworthy until you dump another $10K into it right away, go for the 993 or newer P cars if you like them as much as the 964. But it sounds like the car you are looking at is pretty well sorted.

For me, I was comfortable paying under $25 for my 964 knowing it will need a few things (timing, brakes, etc) in the next couple of years as opposed to dropping $40+ for a 993 or newer knowing that it too will likely need a few things as well in the next few years. Mine already has the suspension and HIDs mind you.

I put myself in this scenario when I was deciding on which Porsche to get (for me it was a '87 911 vs the 964); If I were pull up to another Porsche at a red light (one that's within my budget) and immediately regret not getting that one, I'm in the wrong P-car!

So, which car will you not regret being in at that light? ; )

Good luck with you purchase! (Nice - FUN garage BTW)!!!!

BrianU

This.

Smokey7766

At what point is it no longer worth buying a 964?

I find, for myself at least, the answer is shortly following the funeral....and thats only because i won't be able to get up and test drive one

Vegas993

When the cost outweighs your desire to own one. Millions of people buy cars for more than they are worth every day.

ja78911sc

Amen