Undutched

I heard of the issues with the Mahle setup as well. I wonder why after over 20 years in production they dont put up a more modern system or get rid of the issues.
I am likely going for the LN Engineering setup. At least a more modern take, but use different custom pistons and Carillo or Pauter rods.

For oil pump, valvetrain and ancillaries, I have no clue yet.

As for Turbo. I am likely going for GTX40/2 or EFR8374. They spool very quickly and on my old 2.8l I had 1bar below 3,000rpm. On a 3.8l I don't even wanna know
These old twin turbo setups from the 90s are no comparison in power, weight or efficiency. I had run small twin turbos T25 on my old setup with larger exhaust side, but the much larger single turbo spooled the same and had a lot more headroom, as in I gained over 200HP with .5bar less boost.
In addition to a proper equal length header, it should sound and boost like crazy.

For ECU I will likely go to Link or AEM. There it can be tuned to anything and sensors can be added for protection as well as Ethanol sensor, to run anything from E100 to normal gas or mixture without any map switches. I had that on my old car...

And that is my problem with the German tuners. They still use the old or stock stuff, from 20 years ago and think its the only option. They specialize, but heck there are more options out there. It's like talking to a brick wall.

The Dutchies are bit more flexible and crazy, like me

jevvy964

Looked like a fun time @ Spa

Please dont forget to post the vids - would love to see them.

PhatPhlatSix

The story goes that this car was given to Ron Dennis during the time Porsche were supplying engines to McLaren. Of course, Ron gratefully accepted the gift, but he won't drive it because it is white!!

964TT

That's certainly interesting.
Drivability and especially the liquid intercooler were the main reasons for choosing this system, I didn't aim for peak power.

This is my first turbo system and as such I have to admit it is also my first try. I am very curious for the results. I am sure that I will adjust some things in the future to create an even better synergy between engine and transmission as suited to my usage (road&track).
Perhaps I'll even change the power of the engine if I ever get bored with this one.
As I look at it now and following the progress I have to say everything has been built to the highest standards. If it all works as well as it looks I think I will be very pleased.

Please keep us updated with your project, it will be great to follow and see the results.

964TT

Will post a nice edit somewhere next week!

I'm just trying to imagine the sound...it is by far the greatest modification to a 911 ever!

STUARTQ

LOL, I've believed this for a long time now, the Dutch do seem to have a slightly more outrageous angle on things!

Undutched

I studied there, so saw it first hand

The guy who tuned my old car - maybe 40kg, only drinking redbull. I never saw the guy eat something. But damn, he was the first one to do this e85/standard fuel tuning... ohh and the wooden shoes...

The engine builder is a programmer who sold his company and spent it all on hookers and beer

By all means, I thought I wasn't normal, but it makes working with these guys all the better.


I can fully understand the reason for choosing the system. It is proven and since you prefer the stock look a better option.

The torque should be fun for awhile! With the short gears it is a daily that will be a whole lot of fun. Nothing better than that, except there is a trajectcontrole

Since its a titanium exhaust, that further helps the cause!!!! I had one built as well, for another car. What a world of difference it made. Very good choice!!!

I think part of the problem in Germany is the TÜV. It limits the choices for many companies or customers to do crazy things.

964TT

I would love to hear some more thoughts about the single/bi-turbo setup.
Personally I am all for less parts, less weight and more power but it seems all manufacturers have been going bi-turbo for a while now.

So...with modern technology in mind, what is really better? Or is it just a matter of personal preference/cash?

When I pickup the car I will have a good conversation with Ferdinand of TTP about this and perhaps tape it, I am interested in his thoughts as I know he will have a solid opinion. But it is interesting, people are used to doing things a certain tried and tested way but technology changes. Are we at a point where things changed in favour of the large single turbo?

Undutched

Here are some "basic" calculations.

how to read it:
y axis - pressure ratio (boost at a certain altitude i think, here 0m)
x axis - flow rate (how much lbs/m the engine pushes)
% - the efficiency range of the turbo.

Im no super expert, so PLEASE correct me if i am wrong. I am still in the planning

This is using 3.8l as base and around 1,5bar max boost. Estimated at 650HP +- 15%

With a GTX42 I would mostly be in its efficiency range and has a LOT of headroom (800HP ish @2bar). Boost should start building around 3000-3500rpm, which is fine for me. I think with some tuning and a proper manifold this can be helped further.


With twin K27. Its always close to surging, far away from its efficiency range.
I'd have to go down to 1 bar to be in a decent range and have a lot less power.



With 1 bar, the K27 are still not really feeling well. At around .8 bar (450 ish hp) they work awesome, but why build a turbomotor to only run stock boost? Heck, even the A45 AMG runs 1.6bar stock.



sadly these 2 are not on the website used above, but you can plot yourself and see the ones below will work even better than the large gtx42.

compressor map of the EFR 7670... similar to twin k27...



to compare BW EFR 7670, GT3076 and s200x.
see the red line, the EFR 7670 throwing out power waaaay earlier.



EFR6258 vs GT2860RS. The EFR's will boost even earlier than the K27, but will give a lot more power.

jevvy964

Great data dude

So in summary its less about 1 or 2 turbos being better/worse but more about maximising the efficiency of the turbo(s) based on the desired hp?

ergo there aint no "best"

Undutched

That is correct! Nowadays turbos are becoming mainstream again and more options are coming out with better technology. So a lot more data is also available as above. For my goal I'm looking at gtx40 or efr8374.

Questions like, how much boost, how many liters, where's the redline, spool, cams, injectors, ECU, etc. are all important and so many variations possible.

964TT

Interestingly, none of the manufacturers are using this 'better technology'.
I am only seeing bi-turbo applications, at what point would a single large turbo be better technology?
Are you talking drag racing?

964TT

New seats looking lean and mean...

964TT

Ahhhhhh....engine back in. Life just got interesting again!

964TT

Guard GT3 Club 40/60 LSD on its way. All parts getting ready for the final stretch...