What made you get a 964 over a 993 or an 80s 3.2 ?
 

What made you get a 964 over a 80s 3.2 ?
Price? Mileage?
The main difference cited seems to be: Bumpers, ABS, Airbags.
Bumpers? Whatever.
And the other 2 are pros, not cons.
The 964 car seems just as DIY friendly as 80s 911s

How is the 964 vs 993 ?

I loved my 993 but the last of classic 911 body combined with the coilover suspension. I remember the uproar when the 964 came out and ugly everyone thought it was. The 964 is like the librarian that hides behind horned rim glasses and frumpy clothes but is really super hot underneath.

I do not love the front of the 993. The hood line and line around the lights I have always disliked. I also do not like lowing the lights/fenders down closer to the bonnet. I was 11, 12, 13 when the 964 was the newest 911. It just became ingrained into my taste at a very formative age. If that makes any sense.

OMG are you serious?! There is nothing uglier, frumpier looking, or dated cheese than the accordion-style bumpers of the 3.2s. UGLY!! I got the 964 over the 3.2 mostly because of the looks and good functional A/C. The 964 over the 993 because of the front end styling and obvious affordability. The 993 is still an absolutely gorgeous car.

I have a 964 and a 3.2. My father has a 993. I cannot decide which model is better but I like driving all of them.

With an open ended question like this, you'll get every answer and opinion under the sun. All 911s have their appeal, it all depends on what you are looking for and what makes you warm and fuzzy inside.

For me in 2002 I couldn't afford a 993 and 3.2's were way too dated with the accordian bumpers and long gearshift. Now 993/964 prices are similar, I have no desire to change to 993 for all the usual reasons - just a little too civilised for an old 911 and that face which just seems to look more dated, but not 'retro', with time.

The 964 look really seems to work these days, and with new suspension to replace the OEM lawyer-appeasing set up, and an exhaust bypass or two, they become just a gorgeous thing to drive, all nuggety and growly...in other words the secretary takes off her glasses and lets down her hair.. :-D

964 is less DIY friendly than 3.2 in the areas that were new - e.g. the high pressure brakes/ABS and AWD with its sensors, accelerometers and stuff, and the twin ignition system and so on...

...the type of people owners tend to be and the general acceptability towards tailoring/ tuning. 964 = Winner :-)

Couldn't agree more. I love all 3.2's and 993s but I really just loved the look of the 964, the light "cannons" as I call them and just the beautiful classic yet slightly modern lines.

Regular (non turbo or S variants) of the 993 don't get me going the same way a 964 does...

I echo what others have said. I owned a 3.0 SC Sport which was lovely in it's own way, but the bumpers always bugged me to be honest. I then went for a 356 Speedster which I loved but couldn't get on with. I then brought 996 C4 with GT3 body kit. Now this car I love, but.....I brought a 964 C2 as well as I couldn't resist the whole air cooled experience. If I have to sell one........no, no I love both couldn't possibly.
I do find the 993 a bit too round and flat kinda like it's melting:icon107:

964 has the high fender look in a mostly modern package.

The 964 has the perfect blend of creature comforts (power steering, A/C that works, ABS, etc.) and traditional styling. the 993 looks just as good as long as it has the aero kit on it, but it has too many electronical things like OBD II, keyless entry, etc. that are simply unnecessary. The only thing I'd like the 964 to have would be the 993 rear suspension because it significantly reduces the road noise inside the car.

As time goes on, I like 993 styling less and less. It's not aging well. The 964 on the other hand has a timeless classic look, once its lowered.

@Tcabler I wasn't speaking of personal taste, although I don't have a problem with them. Porsches had accordian bumpers for 14 years until the 964 and it wasn't well received when it came out, hence the reason for low resale values for many years as well as low production numbers. I think over time the 964's styling has become more appreciated, as stated above, because it has aged well.

Why a 964?
 

3.6 litres.... I had rebuilt a 1979 3.0 litre to euro spec and later was blown away by a 964 with the 3.6.... and air conditioning living in Tx and La, it made a difference. although I didn't care for the accordian bumpers, I had considered putting the 964 bumpers in my '79 911, but it still came down to the difference in performance. I probably could have uprated the 3.0, but was about where I was going to have to spend serious money for what a slightly warmed 964 could bring to the table. EFI also has several advatages over the older systems (I know the 3.2's had efi) and I had even purchased a 3.2 manifold to go that route, but sold the car as I began my search for the 964. The only 993 I would have considered that I think looks good is the 993TT.... I believe it does kill bugs faster.. :cool: but with the 964 I got everything I was wanting in a Porsche: 1. displacement (performance), reliability, roadability, and still retain the classic lines while riding in the traditional cacoon of a Porsche 911 interior.

I got a 993 because I only wanted a C2 coupe manual in blk, silver, white or gray. No red exterior or tan interior. No tips, cabs or targa and I didn't find all that in a 964. But I was considering both, buying a used car is all about timing and patience.

the front of the 993 turned me off to getting one. Looks to much like so many japanese sport cars when approaching or in the rear view mirror.

Of those I would get the 964. its still has the classy 911 lines but has some creature comforts.

I really wanted a 993 but the price was out of my range. I did like the way the front looks, but not as much anymore...I am glad I settled....even after 11 years of ownership..

Solve the problem, own all 3! These discussions are always humorous to me as it all just boils down to personal preference. What we all can agree on is that any iteration of an air-cooled car is a GREAT machine and is certainly preferable to almost any other choice out there. I own all the generations and I can give you the highs and lows of each, but the basic summary is they all enjoy the basic goodness.

Since you posted in the 964 forum I would assume you are leaning that way. Good choice, I absolutely love my 964. Styling that is derivative but has the classic upright fenders, great motor, working HVAC and it typically is the rarest of the generations at any Porsche gathering.

At the end of the day buy the absolute best example your budget allows of any of the three choices vs. focusing just on the model. For example if you 1st preference was a 964 I would much rather buy an absolutely pristine 3.2 Carrera than a so-so 964. The newest of these cars and 16 years old and the oldest 30 years old, so condition varies widely.

Any day behind the wheel of an air-cooled 911 be it a 1965 or a 1998 is a GREAT DAY!

Drive comparable examples of all three, then make your bed. :thumbup:

Good advice, you can not go wrong with any of them:thumbsup:

The 993s that I once owned were all excellent cars, but I prefer the 964 for its gearing, steering, chassis dynamics, and build quality. For me, in its control inputs the 964 provides a level of precision that the 993s lacked.

So much for progress then. But I am surprised in that essentially the 993 and 964 are so similar.

The braking system and front suspension are essentially the same. Their is a little more power and an extra cog. So it must be the rear end.

I'm looking at a 993 on Tuesday - fingers crossed.

You don't have to buy an OBD2 993

Good to see you back!! At least occasionally

Not true at all the 993 brakes are a big step up from 964 and the suspension fron bolts to A arms has been strengthened. Gearing is 1-5 is a draw, 993 6the is an od gear that is tough to use unless you regear to something like RS spec, the US 6 speed is a little lower in 1(too low IMO) but the rest are pretty much comparable when similar od tires are used.

I prefer my 964 over my 993, however they are both great cars and I am looking to add a 3.2 to have all 3 generations

For me, I just love the RS aesthetic on the 964. Perhaps it's partly an extension on tune-ability; 'replicating' the factory RS vibe is easy without a bunch of aero bits and bobs, engine work, etc. In my mind it also sits nicely between modern and classic by way of performance, reliability, feel, looks...

It seems the big cutoff is the 993 with its more modern front styling.

It's funny that the 3.2 crowd hates the 964 bumper, while the opposite is true here (accordion hate)

I would consider the 964 since I am no purist, and it seems like a better value. 3.2's are about $20k to $28k. Are 964's about the same? You get similar specs but on a car that's 5-8 years newer. ABS and airbags are a plug, and do not hinder DIY.

They call the 993 the last of the Air cooled, 964 is the last of the 911 classic body
with all the great racing stuff from the 70's dual plug.. coilovers. . 4 pot brakes ..
with the addition of correct looking gauges ..ABS. Airbag
964 is my favorite model nowadays
hate accordion too unless something special like MFI car or early 930

Nothing. I went the other way having had a 964 as a daily driver and loved it.

Sadly it had to be sold to buy a house so when it came to replacing it a few years later I was doing too many miles to use a 911/964 daily so needed a diesel with a 911 as a weekend/fun car and wanted something a little more 'raw' so went for a 3.2 without power steering, ABS, cruise control etc.

I did however miss that lovely 3.6 engine so the simple solution was stick the 964 3.6 into the 3.2 and that was me happy :thumbsup:

I think they all have their merits and shortfalls but wouldn't say no to any of them really.

I love the look of 993's, can walk straight past a 996 but like 997's. It's all down to personal taste.

I was thinking the same thing, it has been too long Geoffrey, I was just asking Ilko the other day how you have been?

They are all great cars. As much as I like the others the 964 had for me the lines and feel of the old school 911's I grew up. I moved from the SC's and Carrera's to the 964 for the stiffer chassis, coil over suspension better braking and ventilation along with better safety. As nice as the 993 is I will never understand what they were thinking with the front end it just does not transition properly to my eye and lacks some of the raw feel of the 964 otherwise what is not to like about them.

I followed a red 964 this morning for a while on my bike to work - a rare treat around here - which made me think how good the tail end looks good too..it has that narrow drop down to a point that really says 'old 911', which on the 993 was starting to move up to the very high tail seen on the 991. Its not just the 'stovepipe fenders' that work, then..

Some of this is undoubtedly fashion, though. I can see the impact bumpers models looking cooler as time goes on (and all the kids are into the 80's now, right?) - and what about the 928, that just gets better and better.

For me its the classic look of the 964 with high front fenders and upright headlights. I grew up with Porsches having that look, its just the way a Porsche should look...well to me anyway. I'm one of those old guys that also thinks a real Porsche is air cooled.

I had a 3.2 carrera but the a/c was inadequate for Las Vegas. The much better a/c, more power, power steering, better trans, more luxury sold me. Every day driver for 8 years. Best, IMHO, traditional look with modern underpinnings. Retired to weekend use in 2013 when I got 996. '67, '68,two '76 (912e) two '84s before 964 plus five 356s.... I have no sales resistance with Porsches.

What made me decide to buy a 964 ?
Three years of 993 ownership ;)
Having driven 3.2's, both 915's and g50's
for 15+ years I finally succumbed and purchased
a 993. Tried to like it for three years then gave up
and got a 964!! Oh joy!
Still have a 3.2 but the 964 is my dream car.
and to this day I have a disdain towards 993's
mostly because it kept me from a 964.

Everyone likes different things, and what works for
some doesn't for others.
For me the 964 is magic, particularly on the track.

The thing I love about the 964 is that it attracted a certain type of owner.

They were cheap and unloved. Thus owners tended to be DIYers and weren't afraid of modifying them.

In some respects I fear this is changing. They're fast becoming expensive cars and new types of owners are seeping through with very differing values.

Everything mentioned in the posts above, AND because it looks so similar to a Longhood!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...4/DSC_0593.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G...0/DSC_0336.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p...0/DSC_0490.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Q...4/DSC_0497.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v...4/DSC_0505.JPG

What is so different about the 964 vs 993?
Why is the 993 so bad?

What year did the 964's bottom out in?
About how much was a nice condition 100k mile car going for then?
Now how much is the same car?

Yea, it seems both the very old 911 and your 964 both have more subdued "torpedo" fenders. Looks good.

Several major factors for me

Looks - despite the larger bumpers the 964 still has that iconic 911 look that I've always loved

Affordability - 993 and seventies 911 prices were out of my budget

AWD - I'm not a great driver, I've not owned a Porsche before and the the car will be used in wet conditions so a C4 seemed to be a wise move.

I think the biggest decision for me was around the AWD. As I wanted to do quite a bit of DIY the mechanical nature and relative simplicity of a 3.2 was very appealing. I also rather liked the fact that the 964 was "unloved" (might be a Brit thing, we love an underdog)

What is so different about the 993 ?
Why is it so bad ?
Firstly, the 993 is actually quite excellent, and many would prefer
it over a 964.
The 993 is much more comfortable and in my experience quite
similar to the 996. Of course the 993 has a much better engine than the 996.
The 964 is definitely more sporting and more similar to the
3.2's.
The only way to know what car works best is to get as much seat time as possibel,
whether it be the drivers or passenger seat.

My 993 was too perfect to drive so in the end it was a relief to sell it. 964's weren't on the radar for me. I was hell bent on going back in time to a 3.2. But I kept thinking - I love the concept but how can I resolve the impact bumpers better? Ruf style, rubber delete, front fog light delete? I also wanted a G50 as you do but good ones down here are very hard to locate. Could be less than 2 for sale per year that don't have any stories. The solution was a complete U turn on my opinion of the 964. It Had the bumpers sorted, the G50 box, the stand up headlights, plus 23 years on most of the issues are sorted. And they are still relatively cheap here in NZ.

Love them all & the only thing that would make me change is a 356... drove a 991 C4 today in the pissing rain & its a fantastic car in all ways but I still like the inside more than the outside!

It's an easy one... It has five letters and I keep it in my skull. If you need a further clue; it rhymes with 'train'.
I can understand people buying 993s; as they're the closet 911 you can get to looking like a 968 without having to own one.
I can also understand people buying a 3.2 Carrera as they're are reminder of how lack of progression virtually putting the company under...And about as interesting to me as a 968.
The 964 is, as my friend who has worked at Porsche all of his working life put's it; A very important car in the history of Porsche, it is the car that saved the company.

....as in...... "no trainer" I agree:thumbup:

Simple...I drove all three and lots of examples of each.
I tried really hard to like the 993, but in the end it was just too un eventful of a drive. It just didn't feel that special to me compared to the 964 and the 3.2. I didn't appreciate the design of the 993 as much as some either.
I was intrigued by the 3.2 Carrera, but ultimately wanted a more talented chassis and suspension.
I ended up purchasing an RSA, then added a 964 Turbo. To me the 964 series is the best of the breed.

How did it save the company?
It's basically the same as the 3.2 except with ABS and airbags.
Is that what it took?

LOL, pay attention in class! A 964 is not just a 3.2 with ABS and airbags. The seats and the basic shape are about all that is the same.

Anyway, I thought it was Toyota's lean technology consultations in the 90's and chucking out the old family members that saved Porsche, leading to efficiency savings in production of 993, platform sharing with boxster/996 and all the way up to now when Porsche are gearing up to sell us some soft-roader horror that is essentially a VW Tiguan with a Porsche crest on the nose.

Maybe 964 is the last Porsche with an all-Porsche soul? :thumbsup:

Owned a few 911's over the years that I loved. I was introduced to the 964 a couple years back through the 90's R Gruppe Early S thread. I must admit I really didn't like the looks when they first came out and like most I tended to view them as the red headed step child of the 911 world. I tend to run with the early "hot-rod" 911 types and when they started talking about these cars on, it continued to peak my interest. Continued to follow the thread on Early S which was filled with positive responses...I figured if the long hood guys had good things to say about a short hood car,how bad could they be...964's were relatively still affordable at the time and was IMO the best bang for the buck.(still is?)
Hmm...
I started to look at them differently as I learned more about them. Guys that I respected tended to have favorable things to say...so...I drove a few and BAM I was hooked. Old school looks with a modern twist. What's not to like?
The car outperforms all of my other 911's in so many areas....the 3.6 just puts a smile a on my face EVERY time I drive it. A/C works...suspension responds as well as any...car feel likes its carved out of a block of steel...
Does it have an early car feel? no...but what it does have is that elusive combination of hitting all the senses depending on how you want to drive it.
DD? sure...canyon carver?...absolutely! Track day? ahh...yea...take the wife out to dinner and hear her say, "let's take the 911"!....priceless :rockon:
My last observation...you don't see to many around which makes them that much cooler...

:to_order:

Platform sharing during the gestation of the 996 was a big deal. Still echos through Porsche today.

Last of the hand built Porsches

3.6L engine

Classic Porsche styling, A/C that works, and has the best prices for great lower mileage examples.

Real men drive 964's :thumbsup:

Had a 997 C4S first but then got an aircooled itch...
Don't think you'll even look at a 964 or any other aircooled Porsche if you’re not really a purest or avid DIY'er.
I looked at 993's, 964's and 930's, I loved the look of the 993 for years, probably why I bought the 997 C4S…
But as far as I was concerned the 964 had it all and the RL 964 community is one of the best.
You won't find a better bunch of guys (and girls) that will help you out with their wealth of knowledge, expertise and sheer minded DIY'ness to solve everyday issues/problems!
The 964 is the black sheep of the 911 family but has the Classic 911 lines with the technology/mod cons to boot.
We love an underdog in the UK and it ticked all the right boxes.
I am lucky enough to secure a car from a reputable UK garage with a top end thrown in, plus a few extras mods at cost!
Still waiting to pick it up but it's getting closer by the day and this one’s a keeper...

LOL
:eek:

Craig

Price wise? IIRC in the UK it would have been about 7+ odd years ago.

One could buy a pristine example for £ 14K.

Today pristine examples command £ 30K+ Even more for the big capacity ones.

Over here in the UK 964 values are and have in (model/ configuration specific comparison instance) overtaken 993 values.

The general UK census,
993 values are maintained by low milage and unmolested examples.
964 values are increased by how well modified/ up kept they are, milage has little value.

As a whole, 993 values are static in the UK whilst 964 prices are on a sharp rise.

I have always liked the 993. Hence i have two of them now. :)
The refined curves, updated engine and rear suspension make for a great 911.
The market is strong on the 993, so strong that i decided to focus my efforts on finding a 964 to add to the collection as the prices are more affordable then the 993.
The 964 is a great 911 as it has a clean body with no impact bumpers and has a decent suspension.
They look great in stock trim with the classic headlight configuration and also make great race car and back date projects.
Since searcing for a 964 I have noticed that the market is quite strong on them with higher resale prices and little inventory. These things are in fact getting expensive.
I now want a 964 more then ever :)

964 because it's the last of the classic shape.:rockon:

Looks like a 911, goes like a train, and feels raw with just enough finesse not to be rough.

Like others....I grew up with this on my wall, so possibly engrained in my psyche?


Love mine, however all derivatives are cool and always turn my head!

100% looks for me. Budget does come into it. As if all 911's were the same price I would have something from around 69-72

Classic looks with just enough touch of modern (I also needed awd).

I DO like the 993 Targa 4S - but $$ (and availability) prevented that! I used to LOVE the 993 over the 964 looks, but so many cars have that low slung "swoopy" look - the 964 though? Can't beat it for looks IMO!!!

Impact bumper cars are "my generation". At 43 today, I can remember being 16 and having the big 935 DP poster on the wall. That being said, and after 20 years of german car ownership with cars ranging from the 60's to present, I will no longer drive "vintage" cars on the street. I'm more comfortable with airbags, and the comfort of AC, and a reasonable amount of modernity, in a classic package.

The styling of the 993 is lost on me. I think the interior is a terrible mix of old and modern, and the headlights and front end lines don't do it for me.

The 964 is the perfect mix of great styling in a technical package that continues to thrill. I think it's engaging to drive, and it makes me wish my GPS had a curvy road setting.

I had an 964 RS America sold it went to an 993 Turbo sold that and have a 964 again cabriolet version ... is with me now for five years and won't be sold
never!!!
too much fun and the best if the air cooled era

I've always been a fan of air-cooled cabs. Love the feeling of freedom, openness and the sound of the air-cooled motor with the top down. I owned a 79 Beetle Conv. for many years. It was a great weekend car for the family. My kids loved it, but, my wife was never a fan of it :mad:.

I always dreamed of owning a 911 and my wife new it, but, we just assumed that it would be a luxury we couldn't afford :nono:. Eventually I just kind of lost interest in the Beetle and decided to sell. Then with some extra cash in my pocket, the long hunt was on for the right 911 at the right price. I didn't even consider the 993 regardless of the higher price. My preference was for a 964 or a late 80's 3.2.

I ended up looking at both. But as soon as I was in the seat of the 964 C4 Cab test driving with the owner in the passenger seat, I had to do everything in my power to keep the smile off my face :icon501:. Everything just felt and sounded right. Eventually made the deal and on the 300 km highway drive home I was even more impressed and there was no keepin the smile off my face now :D. The AWD was incredible in the turns and on the steep uphill drives, gravity doesn't even register with the 964's 3.6L :burnout:.

Eventually, I made it home and drove up the driveway. My wife came out and took one look and said "Now that's sexy" :p. Confirmation enough for me that the 964 is truly the best 911 :thumbup:.

^^^^^
Great story Mixter. Proves you gotta go with your heart sometimes, and it's a big bonus if your partner agrees too!

i know that smile and feeling.
It is the open cheque book smile :)

I am guilty of the same feeling.

Why 964?

1. Classic body style; the last of its kind.
2. Value! I paid $15.5k for my 112k 1990 Carrera 4
3. First generation Porsche AWD. To me, it's beautiful.