Longhood Friday: 964 backdates and other retro ideas
10-16-2012, 03:49 AM
#16
Three Wheelin'
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Not to try and rain on your parade, but...
Having had both a '73 and a '92 now, I've kind of decided that backdating a 964 is not a good idea. They are two different animals that are hard to merge successfully. Yes, you end up with a car that looks like an early 911 with the conveniences we've gotten used to. But you'll never be able to recreate the feel of those lighter, high-reving, torsion bar cars. My '92 is a ton of fun - loud, fast, hooligan fun with thumping torque and wide-wheeled grip. But it can also be a comfortable drive when needed. Sort of a velvet sledge hammer.
But to get the real Early 911 feel, the car's got a have the scream of high revs, the smell of that non-cat mfi (or carb) motor, softer torsion bar bounce to the ride, the old dash look, "two window" ventilation, etc. Best to find a roller or rough early car that you can play with and make your own. Especially if the R Gruppe aesthetic is what you are after.
Having had both a '73 and a '92 now, I've kind of decided that backdating a 964 is not a good idea. They are two different animals that are hard to merge successfully. Yes, you end up with a car that looks like an early 911 with the conveniences we've gotten used to. But you'll never be able to recreate the feel of those lighter, high-reving, torsion bar cars. My '92 is a ton of fun - loud, fast, hooligan fun with thumping torque and wide-wheeled grip. But it can also be a comfortable drive when needed. Sort of a velvet sledge hammer.
But to get the real Early 911 feel, the car's got a have the scream of high revs, the smell of that non-cat mfi (or carb) motor, softer torsion bar bounce to the ride, the old dash look, "two window" ventilation, etc. Best to find a roller or rough early car that you can play with and make your own. Especially if the R Gruppe aesthetic is what you are after.
Understand that I am not anti-modifying our more modern cars, I've got a stack of parts in the garage myself waiting to be put onto mine. But I think we need to expand on the heritage of what we have in the 964. Whether it is aiming for the Euro RS, 964 Cup or something wilder like a 3.8 RSR or RWB. The cars in your post I quoted here are more the direction I'd like to see the hot rod 964 crowd move toward.
Just my $.02. Other opinions may (and will) vary.
Just my $.02. Other opinions may (and will) vary.
I for one like the idea of having a longhood car with 964 guts. If I had the money or the time I'd take the project on. After playing around with my garage queen '74 and getting familiar with the 'old car' feeling, I realized I want to look at a longhood, and drive a 964.
A C4 conversion would be particularly enticing to me. An all weather all-wheel drive 3.6l 5-speed longhood.
10-19-2012, 02:56 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
looking classy
10-19-2012, 02:57 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Love it in orange too. Very nice Singer-type mirror!
10-19-2012, 04:59 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
10-19-2012, 05:44 PM
#21
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I was JUST having this same conversation with Steve W. earlier today. Watching the Magnus Walker show really makes me think about creativity and these cars. It's a little like Jazz... there are major themes and standards we all bear in mind, but we're free to riff on a theme and be creative.
Backdating is super cool.. and I love some of the results. To me, adding chrome and 'simplifying' the bulk of our cars is a great look... and I respect each one as the outcome of creativity and personality.
Singer does an amazing job hitting the 'vintage' theme visually with details, but his cars seem fully modern at the same time.
RAUH-WELT cars fascinate me as they do something with the iconic shape, while being a cool mix of "American" with a Japanese lens. REALLY intriguing.
Magnus seems to do the long-hood thing really well... those are long-hoods-at-birth cars...
BUT - what can we do that's unique to the era that the 964 was born into? I am not a big fan necessarily of the plastic, black-chrome and air-dam generation. It hasn't yet become cool again... but I challenge you all to think about what's unique visually about our cars.... What is about the 964 generation in particular that we can emphasize creatively - without resorting necessarily to the standard backdating vibe (cool as it is)...?
The closest thing I can think of is the RAUH-WELT... but they're kind of classically Japanese too. What is it about the 964 in America that might be a cool idea?
I am just trolling for ideas here... I'd love to better capture the specific 964 vibe... but what IS it?
Backdating is super cool.. and I love some of the results. To me, adding chrome and 'simplifying' the bulk of our cars is a great look... and I respect each one as the outcome of creativity and personality.
Singer does an amazing job hitting the 'vintage' theme visually with details, but his cars seem fully modern at the same time.
RAUH-WELT cars fascinate me as they do something with the iconic shape, while being a cool mix of "American" with a Japanese lens. REALLY intriguing.
Magnus seems to do the long-hood thing really well... those are long-hoods-at-birth cars...
BUT - what can we do that's unique to the era that the 964 was born into? I am not a big fan necessarily of the plastic, black-chrome and air-dam generation. It hasn't yet become cool again... but I challenge you all to think about what's unique visually about our cars.... What is about the 964 generation in particular that we can emphasize creatively - without resorting necessarily to the standard backdating vibe (cool as it is)...?
The closest thing I can think of is the RAUH-WELT... but they're kind of classically Japanese too. What is it about the 964 in America that might be a cool idea?
I am just trolling for ideas here... I'd love to better capture the specific 964 vibe... but what IS it?
10-19-2012, 10:09 PM
#22
BUT - what can we do that's unique to the era that the 964 was born into? I am not a big fan necessarily of the plastic, black-chrome and air-dam generation. It hasn't yet become cool again... but I challenge you all to think about what's unique visually about our cars.... What is about the 964 generation in particular that we can emphasize creatively - without resorting necessarily to the standard backdating vibe (cool as it is)...?
The closest thing I can think of is the RAUH-WELT... but they're kind of classically Japanese too. What is it about the 964 in America that might be a cool idea?
I am just trolling for ideas here... I'd love to better capture the specific 964 vibe... but what IS it?
The closest thing I can think of is the RAUH-WELT... but they're kind of classically Japanese too. What is it about the 964 in America that might be a cool idea?
I am just trolling for ideas here... I'd love to better capture the specific 964 vibe... but what IS it?
One design element that stands out to me about the 964 is the cleaned up rocker trim and front bumper area. These two areas make the 964 very "stance" friendly, IMO. Now, I'm not a big fan of pure stance (all show and no go), but stance to a point mixed with performance, which seems to be a common thread with most of my favorite 964s out there. On a similar note, of all the hot 911 models of each generation, I think it's the RS/RSA/Clubsport, for the narrow bodied 964s at least, that most woo after, from not just the exterior, but interior package as well. Finally, it's not really much of a visual feature, but the 3.6L motor is the hotrod motor that's sought after for engine swaps.
10-20-2012, 05:54 PM
#23
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"To look at a longhood, and drive a 964" , that's exactly what I want as well. And it doesn't have to look exactly like a '71. Leave the rocker panels alone, if anything maybe lighten up wit a chrome trim. Just do the front and back, within $10-12 k. Fuchs lookalikes depending on taste and budget. Group project, anybody??
10-20-2012, 11:31 PM
#26
i've been thinking about backdating a 87-89 car for a while, but since i've gotten my rsa, i thought i'd forgotten about it, but i haven't....
the problem with the 964, design-wise, is the front and rear bumper-especially the front bumper, is just to much of a ledge-that's what singer does so well-he just refines the design...thins out the front bumper, some nice rear flairs-it's the IDEA of an early porsche, rather than trying to recreate one....
personally, i've been obsessing with the IDEA of a rally car, but one that porsche never made-sort of an amalgam of an early r-gruppe car, a singer car, and a rothman's rally car...
the problem with the 964, design-wise, is the front and rear bumper-especially the front bumper, is just to much of a ledge-that's what singer does so well-he just refines the design...thins out the front bumper, some nice rear flairs-it's the IDEA of an early porsche, rather than trying to recreate one....
personally, i've been obsessing with the IDEA of a rally car, but one that porsche never made-sort of an amalgam of an early r-gruppe car, a singer car, and a rothman's rally car...
10-20-2012, 11:50 PM
#27
This is a nice backdate build http://911sporttouring.com/index.html 
i'm guessing a HUGE amount of money...
10-21-2012, 10:14 PM
#30
I loved the backdated look. But I also under if the backdated RS look is a fad just like the 930s look or slant nose look when it came out in the 80s.
When I see an early 911T or E converted to the turbo look, I think I'd rather have the original car back. This makes me wonder 20 years from now when I/someone see a backdated 964 and think I'd rather the original 964 body.
When I see an early 911T or E converted to the turbo look, I think I'd rather have the original car back. This makes me wonder 20 years from now when I/someone see a backdated 964 and think I'd rather the original 964 body.