Black Betty - Part 3 Engine rebuild
08-02-2012, 01:15 PM
#47
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
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It looks very good, Frank, and it is a much, much faster build than mine was... at this rate we'll be seeing you at the September drive! I'll be very interested to see what yours dynos at... I would have thought that the 380 you quoted before was attainable. Mine tested out at a bit over 300 without the Motec or PMOs you are using. In any event it's the torque you'll really notice with a 3.8...
08-02-2012, 03:50 PM
#48
Drifting
Thread Starter
Cheers mate - dying to see yours all clean and more pics of the interior!
Cheers mate, now if only the 4wd system didn't weigh so much and I had your talent behind the wheel.
I'm bracing myself for the next payment...
We're aiming for completion by the end of September, so may have to be the October meet.
Realistically we're expecting nothing below 350... time will tell. What cams are you using? Cup cams?
More importantly now that you've had yours back for a little while now, what are your detailed impressions of your engine? Would make a nice addition to this thread.
Cheers mate, now if only the 4wd system didn't weigh so much and I had your talent behind the wheel.
I'm bracing myself for the next payment...
It looks very good, Frank, and it is a much, much faster build than mine was... at this rate we'll be seeing you at the September drive! I'll be very interested to see what yours dynos at... I would have thought that the 380 you quoted before was attainable. Mine tested out at a bit over 300 without the Motec or PMOs you are using. In any event it's the torque you'll really notice with a 3.8...
Realistically we're expecting nothing below 350... time will tell. What cams are you using? Cup cams?
More importantly now that you've had yours back for a little while now, what are your detailed impressions of your engine? Would make a nice addition to this thread.
08-06-2012, 06:14 AM
#49
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: London
Posts: 242
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Realistically we're expecting nothing below 350... time will tell. What cams are you using? Cup cams?
More importantly now that you've had yours back for a little while now, what are your detailed impressions of your engine? Would make a nice addition to this thread.
Impressions still forming of the new engine, primarily because I've been having a few issues, and also because the weather has been so bad I've only driven it a few times. On the engine issues, there was some difficulty with getting the car to run well with the SMF - there were stalling issues that not only made me look like a berk at every traffic light, but it would stall when I was downshifting into roundabouts, which was pretty terrifying. All retuned now, it is a bit difficult to start cold (my neighbours love me revving at 6am on a Sunday...), and is still pretty easy to stall, but once it is warm everything is pretty good on this front. With the MoTec I understand that you won't have these issues with your SMF because it is much more tuneable.
So not too much to report. The biggest thing I notice so far is the torque. It makes the car so much easier to drive in normal conditions/London traffic and it pulls like a train. The other thing I love is when it "goes on cam", it is a pretty dramatic surge and you can really feel it - almost like a turbocharger kicking in, and much more noticeable than my previously stock-cammed (and tired) 3.6. The car is heaps faster than it used to be and I've had to adjust - I get to corners so much quicker, and I'm really appreciating the upgraded brakes. Because the car now has so much more performance than you can safely use on the road, I'll need to get it to a track to have too much more to say, but it is definitely a much different car with this engine, and is much more to my personal tastes.
The only downside other than the stalling issues is that my fuel economy has gone waaay down - I haven't calculated yet but I'd say I'm averaging in the low teens at best... Just be ready for it! Really looking forward to seeing BB when she's done...
08-09-2012, 09:13 AM
#50
Drifting
Thread Starter
Saw this on eBay - who doesn't like a colour coded ****, should work with the interior.
Sounds great - lovely review, thanks. Looking forward to when mine goes on cam - sounds awesome.
Yup, using Cup cams.
Impressions still forming of the new engine, primarily because I've been having a few issues, and also because the weather has been so bad I've only driven it a few times. On the engine issues, there was some difficulty with getting the car to run well with the SMF - there were stalling issues that not only made me look like a berk at every traffic light, but it would stall when I was downshifting into roundabouts, which was pretty terrifying. All retuned now, it is a bit difficult to start cold (my neighbours love me revving at 6am on a Sunday...), and is still pretty easy to stall, but once it is warm everything is pretty good on this front. With the MoTec I understand that you won't have these issues with your SMF because it is much more tuneable.
So not too much to report. The biggest thing I notice so far is the torque. It makes the car so much easier to drive in normal conditions/London traffic and it pulls like a train. The other thing I love is when it "goes on cam", it is a pretty dramatic surge and you can really feel it - almost like a turbocharger kicking in, and much more noticeable than my previously stock-cammed (and tired) 3.6. The car is heaps faster than it used to be and I've had to adjust - I get to corners so much quicker, and I'm really appreciating the upgraded brakes. Because the car now has so much more performance than you can safely use on the road, I'll need to get it to a track to have too much more to say, but it is definitely a much different car with this engine, and is much more to my personal tastes.
The only downside other than the stalling issues is that my fuel economy has gone waaay down - I haven't calculated yet but I'd say I'm averaging in the low teens at best... Just be ready for it! Really looking forward to seeing BB when she's done...
Impressions still forming of the new engine, primarily because I've been having a few issues, and also because the weather has been so bad I've only driven it a few times. On the engine issues, there was some difficulty with getting the car to run well with the SMF - there were stalling issues that not only made me look like a berk at every traffic light, but it would stall when I was downshifting into roundabouts, which was pretty terrifying. All retuned now, it is a bit difficult to start cold (my neighbours love me revving at 6am on a Sunday...), and is still pretty easy to stall, but once it is warm everything is pretty good on this front. With the MoTec I understand that you won't have these issues with your SMF because it is much more tuneable.
So not too much to report. The biggest thing I notice so far is the torque. It makes the car so much easier to drive in normal conditions/London traffic and it pulls like a train. The other thing I love is when it "goes on cam", it is a pretty dramatic surge and you can really feel it - almost like a turbocharger kicking in, and much more noticeable than my previously stock-cammed (and tired) 3.6. The car is heaps faster than it used to be and I've had to adjust - I get to corners so much quicker, and I'm really appreciating the upgraded brakes. Because the car now has so much more performance than you can safely use on the road, I'll need to get it to a track to have too much more to say, but it is definitely a much different car with this engine, and is much more to my personal tastes.
The only downside other than the stalling issues is that my fuel economy has gone waaay down - I haven't calculated yet but I'd say I'm averaging in the low teens at best... Just be ready for it! Really looking forward to seeing BB when she's done...
Last edited by Porsche964FP; 08-09-2012 at 10:03 AM.
08-11-2012, 07:19 AM
#53
Drifting
Thread Starter
Cheers - appreciate that
Glad it's interesting.Update 4
* Crank built up with the Pauter connecting rods.
* Case back together.
* Oil pump in.
* Next head work to be completed and the P&Cs can go in...
Have to say I'm ecstatic with the process so far. Nick has been brilliant - always updating me, always happy to chat. He's really excited about this one (even though he's got two other 3.8s on the stands), the reason being that he says he's constantly learning. Figuring out new techniques - it's clear that is what he loves about these air-cooled engines, the constant evolution and improvements.
I feel the pace at which Nick is building this engine is fast because it's well managed, passionate, hard working and experienced. I love his dedication to photograph every part of the process - something he does for every engine he builds, means he's got great pride and wants to share the whole process with his customers.
I am feeling very excited to have the car back and hope it'll turn out as we intend. Hopefully the synergy will have worked. I still can't believe this all started in March almost 6 months ago - when the engine had it's problems. But I'm happy with the progress since the build actually started in July. It's been a long time coming...
Last edited by Porsche964FP; 08-11-2012 at 07:41 AM.
08-14-2012, 02:30 PM
#54
Drifting
Thread Starter
Update 4.5
More details.
* Ceramic coating on the exhaust ports up to 4mm in places, we'd be looking at scimming them by 1 to 2 mm in places.
* The valves we're using are 993 RSR items which are 1mm larger. Valves on order.
* Throttle bodies to be ordered.
* Custom exhaust inc. headers to commence in preparation.
* ECU to be ordered.
Guestimated time of delivery - 4 to 5 weeks from now.
Last edited by Porsche964FP; 08-14-2012 at 07:32 PM.
09-04-2012, 08:56 AM
#57
Drifting
Thread Starter
Anytime.
Any feed back on the following would be much appreciated. As ever any questions are more than welcome - I'll do my best to find the answers.
Update 5.
The Motec M84 system sensors:
* Knock sensor.
* VDO Sensor.
* Temp Sensor.
* Throttle body sensor.
* Wide range lamda sensor.
* Crank from the flywheel sensor.
* Barometric compensation.
Injectors:
* Turbo injectors.
09-04-2012, 09:15 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
I'm guessing the "VDO Sensor" is a VDO MAP sensor (VDO being the manufacturer, MAP being "manifold absolute pressure")
M84 is a nice bit of Kit
http://www.motec.com/m84/m84features/
M84 doesn't have built in knock control (majority of aftermarket ECU's don't) - it can be bought and setup as an add-on - probably expensive, not sure if that's what Nick is planning though.
http://www.motec.com/aboutknockcontrol/knockoverview/
I expect he plans to retain the factory Motronic ECU to manage the housekeeping, warm up, cold start, and knock detection, and fit the M84 as a "piggy back" to control the fueling and ignition.
All sounds spot on though (turbo injectors will do the job)!
M84 is a nice bit of Kit
http://www.motec.com/m84/m84features/
M84 doesn't have built in knock control (majority of aftermarket ECU's don't) - it can be bought and setup as an add-on - probably expensive, not sure if that's what Nick is planning though.
http://www.motec.com/aboutknockcontrol/knockoverview/
I expect he plans to retain the factory Motronic ECU to manage the housekeeping, warm up, cold start, and knock detection, and fit the M84 as a "piggy back" to control the fueling and ignition.
All sounds spot on though (turbo injectors will do the job)!
09-05-2012, 06:06 PM
#59
Racer
Hey Frank,
Great thread, already loved this car on the outside, now love inside too.
Not sure what all the oily bits do but all looks very impressive and equally expensive.
Could I ask if this is a pure racer, or do you use it on the normal roads?
Great project, hope it all goes well, keep it coming...
Great thread, already loved this car on the outside, now love inside too.
Not sure what all the oily bits do but all looks very impressive and equally expensive.
Could I ask if this is a pure racer, or do you use it on the normal roads?
Great project, hope it all goes well, keep it coming...
09-06-2012, 09:08 AM
#60
Drifting
Thread Starter
I'm guessing the "VDO Sensor" is a VDO MAP sensor (VDO being the manufacturer, MAP being "manifold absolute pressure")
M84 is a nice bit of Kit
http://www.motec.com/m84/m84features/
M84 doesn't have built in knock control (majority of aftermarket ECU's don't) - it can be bought and setup as an add-on - probably expensive, not sure if that's what Nick is planning though.
http://www.motec.com/aboutknockcontrol/knockoverview/
I expect he plans to retain the factory Motronic ECU to manage the housekeeping, warm up, cold start, and knock detection, and fit the M84 as a "piggy back" to control the fueling and ignition.
All sounds spot on though (turbo injectors will do the job)!
M84 is a nice bit of Kit
http://www.motec.com/m84/m84features/
M84 doesn't have built in knock control (majority of aftermarket ECU's don't) - it can be bought and setup as an add-on - probably expensive, not sure if that's what Nick is planning though.
http://www.motec.com/aboutknockcontrol/knockoverview/
I expect he plans to retain the factory Motronic ECU to manage the housekeeping, warm up, cold start, and knock detection, and fit the M84 as a "piggy back" to control the fueling and ignition.
All sounds spot on though (turbo injectors will do the job)!
Hey Frank,
Great thread, already loved this car on the outside, now love inside too.
Not sure what all the oily bits do but all looks very impressive and equally expensive.
Could I ask if this is a pure racer, or do you use it on the normal roads?
Great project, hope it all goes well, keep it coming...
Great thread, already loved this car on the outside, now love inside too.
Not sure what all the oily bits do but all looks very impressive and equally expensive.
Could I ask if this is a pure racer, or do you use it on the normal roads?
Great project, hope it all goes well, keep it coming...
Car is a hybrid that suits my needs, it retains the full 'heavy weight' interior and aircon. The idea is a focused touring car for european blasts and track. The idea is a 964 that could potentially be used everyday (in it's drivability) that has the performance of modern 911s. It'll spend most of it's time on the roads (sporadic weekends away) with about 5 track days a year. It's supposed to be a subtle bruiser that goes under the radar - wolf in sheep's clothing. No loud RS colours here - after all it ain't one!