Looking for first P-Car, is the 964 right for me?
02-10-2012, 10:55 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
^^^^^^^
That's a great 911 journey you've had there Jim. Nice story.
That's a great 911 journey you've had there Jim. Nice story.
02-10-2012, 11:34 AM
#18
What a great thread, I am in the exact same boat, and have yearned for a 911 for years, now at 42 this year is the one I will pull the trigger.
My problem is I change my mind on cars and really haven’t had one in the past that I truly loved and wanted to keep. Yet all along I still wanted a 911.
For me the 964 is the perfect silhouette of the 911 (I do however like the 997 and 991), whilst the 993 might be the last great air-cooled Porsche I just don’t like the look of it, it just looks weak compared to the 964.
Other than taking/collecting my son/daughter to the odd sports game the car wont be the primary family transport, so it will be my car, in the summer I cycle to work so it will be used for fun, and they in the winter I need a DD. I’d also like to run the odd track day and use it as it was designed, but really only 1-2 a year.
So my dilemma is sell my current 4x4 and but a 996 Turbo and use it all year (I live in the Midwest so we get a fair amount of snow), or my heart says keep the 4x4, buy a nice 964 C2.
I haven’t driven either but I weigh them up as:
996 Turbo
+’ves: only need 1 car (I don’t have a huge garage and have motorcycles as well!), more modern car, should be more reliable, cheaper to service. Is hyper fast!, and they are at the point where a good ones values should stabilize or rise. An incredible car for the money, more comfortable should I take the family out every now and then. Can sell my 4x4 so as a total will be cheaper.
-‘ves: It’s about the best looking 996 but I am still not totally sold, 4WD isnt a totally pure driving experience, I worry using it daily especially all winter will slightly bore me of it, ie it wont be so special to drive it.
964 C2
+’ves: it looks stunning, I want a grey one with Black cup wheels…., is a pure old school Porsche, not my DD so driving and looking after it will be more special. I like fiddling with bikes and cars so looking after it and fixing it for me will be part of the fun. Not too crazy fast to get me in trouble. Something I can keep and cherish. Will only grow in value if cared for.
-‘ves: Will need to but a lift for my garage to store it in winter (though I like the idea of having one for the practical side of working on the car), it’s a 20 yr old car, it’s going to inevitably be a labor of love and money!
I haven’t had much driving time in either car, so I appreciate they will feel very different, anyone had any experience of both that can comment, I’d be really interested in the groups views.
thanks
My problem is I change my mind on cars and really haven’t had one in the past that I truly loved and wanted to keep. Yet all along I still wanted a 911.
For me the 964 is the perfect silhouette of the 911 (I do however like the 997 and 991), whilst the 993 might be the last great air-cooled Porsche I just don’t like the look of it, it just looks weak compared to the 964.
Other than taking/collecting my son/daughter to the odd sports game the car wont be the primary family transport, so it will be my car, in the summer I cycle to work so it will be used for fun, and they in the winter I need a DD. I’d also like to run the odd track day and use it as it was designed, but really only 1-2 a year.
So my dilemma is sell my current 4x4 and but a 996 Turbo and use it all year (I live in the Midwest so we get a fair amount of snow), or my heart says keep the 4x4, buy a nice 964 C2.
I haven’t driven either but I weigh them up as:
996 Turbo
+’ves: only need 1 car (I don’t have a huge garage and have motorcycles as well!), more modern car, should be more reliable, cheaper to service. Is hyper fast!, and they are at the point where a good ones values should stabilize or rise. An incredible car for the money, more comfortable should I take the family out every now and then. Can sell my 4x4 so as a total will be cheaper.
-‘ves: It’s about the best looking 996 but I am still not totally sold, 4WD isnt a totally pure driving experience, I worry using it daily especially all winter will slightly bore me of it, ie it wont be so special to drive it.
964 C2
+’ves: it looks stunning, I want a grey one with Black cup wheels…., is a pure old school Porsche, not my DD so driving and looking after it will be more special. I like fiddling with bikes and cars so looking after it and fixing it for me will be part of the fun. Not too crazy fast to get me in trouble. Something I can keep and cherish. Will only grow in value if cared for.
-‘ves: Will need to but a lift for my garage to store it in winter (though I like the idea of having one for the practical side of working on the car), it’s a 20 yr old car, it’s going to inevitably be a labor of love and money!
I haven’t had much driving time in either car, so I appreciate they will feel very different, anyone had any experience of both that can comment, I’d be really interested in the groups views.
thanks
02-10-2012, 11:49 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
^^^^^
From your post above, you are very well researched and know what you are getting into. I agree with all your +/-, except I can't see daily driving a TT ever becoming mundane.
Obviously I would go the 964 route.
I mostly bike commute but the 964 is my only car so it has to be on-call for kid duty. The back seats get quite a workout. Other than that, the 964 is used for fun driving and staring at for hours in the garage.
I like the lift idea also.
964 and a lift...easy choice.
From your post above, you are very well researched and know what you are getting into. I agree with all your +/-, except I can't see daily driving a TT ever becoming mundane.
Obviously I would go the 964 route.
I mostly bike commute but the 964 is my only car so it has to be on-call for kid duty. The back seats get quite a workout. Other than that, the 964 is used for fun driving and staring at for hours in the garage.
I like the lift idea also.
964 and a lift...easy choice.
02-10-2012, 12:06 PM
#20
Advanced
Thread Starter
I feel the same way! I'm more anxious than ever to finally have my own.
911Jetta, you basically said everything I needed to hear. My last two cars were purchased brand new and honestly they couldn't have felt more mass marketed. They just lacked a lot of character and I never really felt connected to them. I've been convinced that ipod connectivity, comfort access, and all new std. creature comforts are unnecessary amenities and hardly make for a good car.
I am very hands on and have done most of the maintenance and modifications on my own cars. I'm sure the wealth of knowledge here will help in that regard too. And so the search begins, though selection seems really scarce right now and I know I will have to be very patient until I find the right one.
I do know I want a coupe + manual car only. Other than Autotrader, Cars, ebay, craigslist, rennlist, and pelican parts, are there other sources I should look into? I am from PA and am open to shipping the car here as well. With independent PPIs that are out of state, does the seller normally bring it to the shop for inspection or do I contact the shop to have them go out to look at the car for me?
911Jetta, you basically said everything I needed to hear. My last two cars were purchased brand new and honestly they couldn't have felt more mass marketed. They just lacked a lot of character and I never really felt connected to them. I've been convinced that ipod connectivity, comfort access, and all new std. creature comforts are unnecessary amenities and hardly make for a good car.
I am very hands on and have done most of the maintenance and modifications on my own cars. I'm sure the wealth of knowledge here will help in that regard too. And so the search begins, though selection seems really scarce right now and I know I will have to be very patient until I find the right one.
I do know I want a coupe + manual car only. Other than Autotrader, Cars, ebay, craigslist, rennlist, and pelican parts, are there other sources I should look into? I am from PA and am open to shipping the car here as well. With independent PPIs that are out of state, does the seller normally bring it to the shop for inspection or do I contact the shop to have them go out to look at the car for me?
02-10-2012, 12:20 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
Sites that query multiple sites at one are really good to use. For example, jaxed.com and Oodle.com. Good cars in desirable configurations move incredibly fast, and will likely not be local, so you have to treat this search like a job search, revisiting results throughout the day and being ready to get things in motion. It took me 6mo to find the car I wanted and it had been listed for under a day when I made first contact. I researched on the forums for a good PPI shop, had the seller drop it off, then went from there. I flew out the following week to pick it up and drive it back home for 11hrs. Best day ever!
02-10-2012, 12:42 PM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Ok, looks like it will be another one of those searches, which I thoroughly enjoy (can't say the same for the SO). I recently bought a 1st gen Taco (02' Toyota Tacoma) and you would be surprised at the demand and asking prices on these little trucks. I searched twice a day every day for 3 months and drove 3 hours to pick it up. Good trucks were literally sold within 24 hours of listing. I'm sure I will have a ton more fun with this one!
02-10-2012, 12:45 PM
#23
There is lots of good information and advice here. My addition is to find a car of the type you are interested that you can test drive, more that one if possible so you can weed out car unique issues. Once you know that this is what you want do research on the model, Porsche made many changes thru the production of each model some mid run. This will help as you look to know what questions to ask on a specific car. A good example is the head gasket change mid year. It should not disqualify a car but makes you an informed buyer. The more you know what to look for on any particular car the lower the risk when dealing long distance.
Good luck finding a good one.
Good luck finding a good one.
02-10-2012, 01:19 PM
#24
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What a great thread, I am in the exact same boat, and have yearned for a 911 for years, now at 42 this year is the one I will pull the trigger.
My problem is I change my mind on cars and really haven’t had one in the past that I truly loved and wanted to keep. Yet all along I still wanted a 911.
For me the 964 is the perfect silhouette of the 911 (I do however like the 997 and 991), whilst the 993 might be the last great air-cooled Porsche I just don’t like the look of it, it just looks weak compared to the 964.
Other than taking/collecting my son/daughter to the odd sports game the car wont be the primary family transport, so it will be my car, in the summer I cycle to work so it will be used for fun, and they in the winter I need a DD. I’d also like to run the odd track day and use it as it was designed, but really only 1-2 a year.
So my dilemma is sell my current 4x4 and but a 996 Turbo and use it all year (I live in the Midwest so we get a fair amount of snow), or my heart says keep the 4x4, buy a nice 964 C2.
I haven’t driven either but I weigh them up as:
996 Turbo
+’ves: only need 1 car (I don’t have a huge garage and have motorcycles as well!), more modern car, should be more reliable, cheaper to service. Is hyper fast!, and they are at the point where a good ones values should stabilize or rise. An incredible car for the money, more comfortable should I take the family out every now and then. Can sell my 4x4 so as a total will be cheaper.
-‘ves: It’s about the best looking 996 but I am still not totally sold, 4WD isnt a totally pure driving experience, I worry using it daily especially all winter will slightly bore me of it, ie it wont be so special to drive it.
964 C2
+’ves: it looks stunning, I want a grey one with Black cup wheels…., is a pure old school Porsche, not my DD so driving and looking after it will be more special. I like fiddling with bikes and cars so looking after it and fixing it for me will be part of the fun. Not too crazy fast to get me in trouble. Something I can keep and cherish. Will only grow in value if cared for.
-‘ves: Will need to but a lift for my garage to store it in winter (though I like the idea of having one for the practical side of working on the car), it’s a 20 yr old car, it’s going to inevitably be a labor of love and money!
I haven’t had much driving time in either car, so I appreciate they will feel very different, anyone had any experience of both that can comment, I’d be really interested in the groups views.
thanks
My problem is I change my mind on cars and really haven’t had one in the past that I truly loved and wanted to keep. Yet all along I still wanted a 911.
For me the 964 is the perfect silhouette of the 911 (I do however like the 997 and 991), whilst the 993 might be the last great air-cooled Porsche I just don’t like the look of it, it just looks weak compared to the 964.
Other than taking/collecting my son/daughter to the odd sports game the car wont be the primary family transport, so it will be my car, in the summer I cycle to work so it will be used for fun, and they in the winter I need a DD. I’d also like to run the odd track day and use it as it was designed, but really only 1-2 a year.
So my dilemma is sell my current 4x4 and but a 996 Turbo and use it all year (I live in the Midwest so we get a fair amount of snow), or my heart says keep the 4x4, buy a nice 964 C2.
I haven’t driven either but I weigh them up as:
996 Turbo
+’ves: only need 1 car (I don’t have a huge garage and have motorcycles as well!), more modern car, should be more reliable, cheaper to service. Is hyper fast!, and they are at the point where a good ones values should stabilize or rise. An incredible car for the money, more comfortable should I take the family out every now and then. Can sell my 4x4 so as a total will be cheaper.
-‘ves: It’s about the best looking 996 but I am still not totally sold, 4WD isnt a totally pure driving experience, I worry using it daily especially all winter will slightly bore me of it, ie it wont be so special to drive it.
964 C2
+’ves: it looks stunning, I want a grey one with Black cup wheels…., is a pure old school Porsche, not my DD so driving and looking after it will be more special. I like fiddling with bikes and cars so looking after it and fixing it for me will be part of the fun. Not too crazy fast to get me in trouble. Something I can keep and cherish. Will only grow in value if cared for.
-‘ves: Will need to but a lift for my garage to store it in winter (though I like the idea of having one for the practical side of working on the car), it’s a 20 yr old car, it’s going to inevitably be a labor of love and money!
I haven’t had much driving time in either car, so I appreciate they will feel very different, anyone had any experience of both that can comment, I’d be really interested in the groups views.
thanks
02-10-2012, 01:54 PM
#25
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Like many others have posted, drive them all (if possible) and see what just "feels right" to you. You must also have money budgeted towards repairs, upkeep, etc..something I didn't do when I was younger.
I have been so fortunate in my life to have owned a Z06, E46 M3, MB CL55 AMG, 91 964C4 and many others...And you know what, I could have picked any of these cars to buy again as my "fun/weekend" car; I chose another 964C4 in December. That says a lot about these cars. There's just something special about them, hard to put into words. Driving it always puts a smile on my face..
Just my .02...
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Dave
I have been so fortunate in my life to have owned a Z06, E46 M3, MB CL55 AMG, 91 964C4 and many others...And you know what, I could have picked any of these cars to buy again as my "fun/weekend" car; I chose another 964C4 in December. That says a lot about these cars. There's just something special about them, hard to put into words. Driving it always puts a smile on my face..
Just my .02...
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Dave
02-10-2012, 02:02 PM
#26
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Love my 964; the best car I've ever owned.
It's like a spoiled girlfriend, however. If you can live with it, no problem, but be sure you know what you're getting into.
The mileage sucks ***. I get around 17mpg. If I baby it, I can get 22, but really, what would be the point? Spin it!
It needs work. These are aging machines, and though quite well designed and robust 20 year old plastic is getting tired. Seals, hoses, etc (there are a LOT of them and they can be *stupid* spendy) will all need monitoring and possibly replacement. Personally, if I couldn't do all my own work I would not be able to afford the car. Sure, the entry point is completely accessable, but can you pay Hans and Fritz $100 an hour for a valve adjustment every 15k? Figure $6-800 for that, if you have it serviced.
Not trying to scare you away, far from it- the Porsche is built to a radically different standard than anything I've ever owned. It was designed and built by guys who love cars, built to be driven hard, and built to be kept. No one at Porsche (that generation Porsche, anyway....) ever said, "Well, they'll only keep the car 5-7 years at the most so it won't matter if we use a cheaper XYZ." Honestly, even going down the highway with the cruise on is a different experience; it does whatever you ask with this straightforward businesslike competence. Amazing, really.
It's like a spoiled girlfriend, however. If you can live with it, no problem, but be sure you know what you're getting into.
The mileage sucks ***. I get around 17mpg. If I baby it, I can get 22, but really, what would be the point? Spin it!
It needs work. These are aging machines, and though quite well designed and robust 20 year old plastic is getting tired. Seals, hoses, etc (there are a LOT of them and they can be *stupid* spendy) will all need monitoring and possibly replacement. Personally, if I couldn't do all my own work I would not be able to afford the car. Sure, the entry point is completely accessable, but can you pay Hans and Fritz $100 an hour for a valve adjustment every 15k? Figure $6-800 for that, if you have it serviced.
Not trying to scare you away, far from it- the Porsche is built to a radically different standard than anything I've ever owned. It was designed and built by guys who love cars, built to be driven hard, and built to be kept. No one at Porsche (that generation Porsche, anyway....) ever said, "Well, they'll only keep the car 5-7 years at the most so it won't matter if we use a cheaper XYZ." Honestly, even going down the highway with the cruise on is a different experience; it does whatever you ask with this straightforward businesslike competence. Amazing, really.
02-10-2012, 03:05 PM
#28
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02-10-2012, 07:27 PM
#29
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964's sometimes need lots of tlc. Make sure you do a PPI and get the compressions on all cylinders checked. Check for oil leaks and sweaty spots. After some repairs my 964 sweats a bit, but it definetely does not leak. The best thing about these cars is that they are so good to work on. Some thing are in small spaces. But many things can be done with ordinary tools or car repair tools. And I really like working on it. It just makes the car better and it's not that hard.
Edit: plus lots lots of DIY's here on RL and out 'there'. Makes working on these cars much easier.
Under 4k rpm the engine pull feels like you are in an accelerating river or something. Above 4 k rpm gorgeous!! I have driven faster cars with nice sounding engine but the 964 (decat, 2nd bypass, more open air intake) sounds great! Also woman most of the time like old Porsches! They find them charming (untill they sit next to you and you floor it).
I really like allmost all Porsches. Recently saw a 997 4s white with ducktail, 'fuchs', yellow brakes, stripe sticker over teh body. Really looked great and definetly I hope to own such a car in the future. But then you see your 964 again and you know every drive with that thing will be a pleasure, meetings with car owners of 964 (and 993's and 911's) are fun because they seem to be an idiot like me and I think it's (one of) the best looking car on the world. Only other thing would be a Lamborghini Diablo, but I could better burn my cash then all the time probably or something (since that would be less expensive).
Edit: plus lots lots of DIY's here on RL and out 'there'. Makes working on these cars much easier.
Under 4k rpm the engine pull feels like you are in an accelerating river or something. Above 4 k rpm gorgeous!! I have driven faster cars with nice sounding engine but the 964 (decat, 2nd bypass, more open air intake) sounds great! Also woman most of the time like old Porsches! They find them charming (untill they sit next to you and you floor it).
I really like allmost all Porsches. Recently saw a 997 4s white with ducktail, 'fuchs', yellow brakes, stripe sticker over teh body. Really looked great and definetly I hope to own such a car in the future. But then you see your 964 again and you know every drive with that thing will be a pleasure, meetings with car owners of 964 (and 993's and 911's) are fun because they seem to be an idiot like me and I think it's (one of) the best looking car on the world. Only other thing would be a Lamborghini Diablo, but I could better burn my cash then all the time probably or something (since that would be less expensive).
02-11-2012, 01:34 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
The thing about the 964 is that when you are not driving it, you are aware it is there, waiting to be driven—and you can hardly wait. You know that perfectly shaped, smooth, iconic, minimalist exterior; you appreciate that no-nonsense, non-distracting interior. You know that sound at start-up, that rough, slightly rumbling rise and fall of RPMs. You know that when you are 3.5k revs and you give a it little push up to 6k, that you will experience a satisfying mixture of confidence and exhilaration. And that very faint scent of oil that comes every now and then reminds you not just of what you are driving but why. There. I feel better.