Little Cost Effective mods to do?
01-19-2011, 07:24 PM
#31
01-19-2011, 08:03 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I don't wish to be the devils advocate but how can you say a chip is not an improvement???
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
An aftermarket stainless steel muffler bypass is around $200. Hardly expensive and most exhaust shops can't suitably form the specific Porsche exhaust flange joins so you'll probably end up with an exhaust leak.
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
An aftermarket stainless steel muffler bypass is around $200. Hardly expensive and most exhaust shops can't suitably form the specific Porsche exhaust flange joins so you'll probably end up with an exhaust leak.
I'll go back and reiterate my most recent comparisons, same track/same day with the faux RS 3.8 and the stock 3.6 RSA. At most 6MPH difference terminal speed front straight Thunderhill. The 3.8L is Steve Weiner built and verified 315HP on his dyno. So 150cc displacement, cams, larger intake valves, exhaust, extensive internal lightening, and yes a custom chip net ~65HP over a 964 3.6L.
01-19-2011, 08:34 PM
#33
I don't wish to be the devils advocate but how can you say a chip is not an improvement???
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
An aftermarket stainless steel muffler bypass is around $200. Hardly expensive and most exhaust shops can't suitably form the specific Porsche exhaust flange joins so you'll probably end up with an exhaust leak.
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
An aftermarket stainless steel muffler bypass is around $200. Hardly expensive and most exhaust shops can't suitably form the specific Porsche exhaust flange joins so you'll probably end up with an exhaust leak.
01-19-2011, 08:50 PM
#34
Race Director
I don't wish to be the devils advocate but how can you say a chip is not an improvement???
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
I have dyno figures done at an official Porsche dealership on the same day showing a 14% increase in power. My car went from 186kw to 210kw! Yes, this was in conjunction with a muffler bypass and a colda air intake but we all know that the intake and the cup pipe maybe gave 5kw at best.
I then took it to an official timed drag strip and my car dropped over half a second off the 0-100 time and did a 12.5 second quarter mile.
The difference in driving the car with/without the chip is night and day.
My car also regularily competes on the track and pulls as hard as a 996 GT3. Both of which i have driven back to back on many occasions.
I do almost identical lap times in either car so it is not driver ability.....
01-19-2011, 10:36 PM
#36
Race Director
It won't descend into anything, and its not about the chip.
a 247bhp N/A car is not gaining 90bhp from an intake, exhaust bypass, and chip. Sorry, if thats the case, then this guy could sell this package for thousands. hell it took porsche a turbo and 8psi to make a bit more power.
Unless his car is stripped to the bone, its not pulling as hard as a 996 GT3 either...or running 12.5 in the 1/4.
a 247bhp N/A car is not gaining 90bhp from an intake, exhaust bypass, and chip. Sorry, if thats the case, then this guy could sell this package for thousands. hell it took porsche a turbo and 8psi to make a bit more power.
Unless his car is stripped to the bone, its not pulling as hard as a 996 GT3 either...or running 12.5 in the 1/4.
01-19-2011, 11:12 PM
#37
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Ok, lets' confirm. I don't know where all these power calculations are coming from.
According to my unit converter for power, I get the following.
Firstly, 210kw as I stated mine has at the crank is only the same power as a 993 varioram. Pretty reasonable to expect considering the 993 and 964 are essentially the same, the 993 simply has better breathing for both intake and exhaust. And according to my calculations, 210kw is actually 282 HP NOT 335HP. This is a 24kw increase at the crank over stock which I would think is perfectly reasonable for a chip, exhaust and intake upgrade.
Acceleration runs that are conducted in car magazines are usually done with 2 people in the car and a full tank of gas. In my case it is one person in the car and a quarter of a tank so a 100kg plus weight saving. And yes, i was as surprised as you that my car got into the 12's and sub 5's 0-100km/h. Perhaps launching on sticky track tyres also helped, who knows.
As for the GT3, I have driven both cars back to back on many occasions and if you search on this forum, a recent post compared both and several of us noted, the same thing and that is a well modded 964 is just as quick and handy as a 996 GT3 on the track. The 964 is stronger in some areas and the 996 in others. Furthermore, my car, thus equipped regularily runs similar times to similarily experienced drivers in 996 GT3's, especially Mark 1 996 GT3. Obviously those GT3's that have been modified run quicker than my 964 and the cup spec GT3's are another story!!
No, this isn't me telling you how big my **** is or having rose tinted goggles, it is what I have dynoed, what has been timed and what has often surprised me as well, especially the acceleration figures. As stated, I put this down to official timed runs being done two up with full gas which adds about 100kg to the car minimum.
Interestingly, I recently took the chip out as I am getting a Steve Wong Chip made up due to instaling some dougherty DC21 cams and reinserted the OEM chip. The car instantly went from 160rwkw to 144rwkw. As stated, Porsche cars Australia on their dyno roughly equates a 1.32 multiplication factor to get crank power so that becomes 211kw down to 185kw or therabouts.
Same day, same hour, same ambient temperature, same official Porsche cars Australia dyno and same Porsche qualified engineer.
I also agree with race 911, that a the end of the day, the absolute best money is spent on driver training. There are plenty of people with stock cars beating those with modified cars and furthermore, I would take handling improvements over power gains anyday as the handling usually results in better net lap time gains. I know the biggest lap time improvements I got were when i fitted adjustable 24mm swaybars front and rear and upgraded to HR reds.
Also, I am also a big fan of taking weight out, however my car is also enjoyed off season with a babyseat in the back and I don't want to gut it. I have had gutted racecars before and I didn't want to take this route with my 911. It is lighter than stock however as i have RS type seats installed during the motorsport season that save about 40kgs so I am led to believe. I know when I lifted out the factory seats they were VERY heavy.
According to my unit converter for power, I get the following.
Firstly, 210kw as I stated mine has at the crank is only the same power as a 993 varioram. Pretty reasonable to expect considering the 993 and 964 are essentially the same, the 993 simply has better breathing for both intake and exhaust. And according to my calculations, 210kw is actually 282 HP NOT 335HP. This is a 24kw increase at the crank over stock which I would think is perfectly reasonable for a chip, exhaust and intake upgrade.
Acceleration runs that are conducted in car magazines are usually done with 2 people in the car and a full tank of gas. In my case it is one person in the car and a quarter of a tank so a 100kg plus weight saving. And yes, i was as surprised as you that my car got into the 12's and sub 5's 0-100km/h. Perhaps launching on sticky track tyres also helped, who knows.
As for the GT3, I have driven both cars back to back on many occasions and if you search on this forum, a recent post compared both and several of us noted, the same thing and that is a well modded 964 is just as quick and handy as a 996 GT3 on the track. The 964 is stronger in some areas and the 996 in others. Furthermore, my car, thus equipped regularily runs similar times to similarily experienced drivers in 996 GT3's, especially Mark 1 996 GT3. Obviously those GT3's that have been modified run quicker than my 964 and the cup spec GT3's are another story!!
No, this isn't me telling you how big my **** is or having rose tinted goggles, it is what I have dynoed, what has been timed and what has often surprised me as well, especially the acceleration figures. As stated, I put this down to official timed runs being done two up with full gas which adds about 100kg to the car minimum.
Interestingly, I recently took the chip out as I am getting a Steve Wong Chip made up due to instaling some dougherty DC21 cams and reinserted the OEM chip. The car instantly went from 160rwkw to 144rwkw. As stated, Porsche cars Australia on their dyno roughly equates a 1.32 multiplication factor to get crank power so that becomes 211kw down to 185kw or therabouts.
Same day, same hour, same ambient temperature, same official Porsche cars Australia dyno and same Porsche qualified engineer.
I also agree with race 911, that a the end of the day, the absolute best money is spent on driver training. There are plenty of people with stock cars beating those with modified cars and furthermore, I would take handling improvements over power gains anyday as the handling usually results in better net lap time gains. I know the biggest lap time improvements I got were when i fitted adjustable 24mm swaybars front and rear and upgraded to HR reds.
Also, I am also a big fan of taking weight out, however my car is also enjoyed off season with a babyseat in the back and I don't want to gut it. I have had gutted racecars before and I didn't want to take this route with my 911. It is lighter than stock however as i have RS type seats installed during the motorsport season that save about 40kgs so I am led to believe. I know when I lifted out the factory seats they were VERY heavy.
Last edited by Jimjacqmx5; 01-19-2011 at 11:30 PM.
01-19-2011, 11:30 PM
#39
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01-19-2011, 11:54 PM
#40
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For the record I have the 1/4 mile (400m) run on video and I went back to ensure I wasn't greasing my pole and the run is a 12.656.
Here a 1/4 mile is run over 400m, perhaps a 'true' 1/4 mile is slightly longer in the USA?
I just checked and it is slightly shorter. 400m run is 0.2485 miles or just shy of a true 1/4 mile.
This, along wih the weight factor on official runs may help explain the low times.
If I really wanted to go fast I'd get a new 997 Turbo S. A journalist here took one recently to the local drag races and got himself banned as any car running below 11 secs has to have a rear chute. He ran a 10.9. Legend.
Here a 1/4 mile is run over 400m, perhaps a 'true' 1/4 mile is slightly longer in the USA?
I just checked and it is slightly shorter. 400m run is 0.2485 miles or just shy of a true 1/4 mile.
This, along wih the weight factor on official runs may help explain the low times.
If I really wanted to go fast I'd get a new 997 Turbo S. A journalist here took one recently to the local drag races and got himself banned as any car running below 11 secs has to have a rear chute. He ran a 10.9. Legend.
01-20-2011, 06:26 AM
#41
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Sorry for the non-topic, but I wish I was visiting Jimjacqmx5 in Beautiful Melbourne. I am a big tennis fan and the time difference makes it difficult to catch on tv a lot of the matches at the Open.
For me, I like the heater bypass pipe in the back. Clears a lot space in the engine compartment and sheds the weight of the blower.
For me, I like the heater bypass pipe in the back. Clears a lot space in the engine compartment and sheds the weight of the blower.
01-20-2011, 06:53 AM
#42
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Sorry for the non-topic, but I wish I was visiting Jimjacqmx5 in Beautiful Melbourne. I am a big tennis fan and the time difference makes it difficult to catch on tv a lot of the matches at the Open.
For me, I like the heater bypass pipe in the back. Clears a lot space in the engine compartment and sheds the weight of the blower.
For me, I like the heater bypass pipe in the back. Clears a lot space in the engine compartment and sheds the weight of the blower.
01-20-2011, 11:08 AM
#43
Race Director
Ok, lets' confirm. I don't know where all these power calculations are coming from.
According to my unit converter for power, I get the following.
Firstly, 210kw as I stated mine has at the crank is only the same power as a 993 varioram. Pretty reasonable to expect considering the 993 and 964 are essentially the same, the 993 simply has better breathing for both intake and exhaust. And according to my calculations, 210kw is actually 282 HP NOT 335HP. This is a 24kw increase at the crank over stock which I would think is perfectly reasonable for a chip, exhaust and intake upgrade.
Acceleration runs that are conducted in car magazines are usually done with 2 people in the car and a full tank of gas. In my case it is one person in the car and a quarter of a tank so a 100kg plus weight saving. And yes, i was as surprised as you that my car got into the 12's and sub 5's 0-100km/h. Perhaps launching on sticky track tyres also helped, who knows.
As for the GT3, I have driven both cars back to back on many occasions and if you search on this forum, a recent post compared both and several of us noted, the same thing and that is a well modded 964 is just as quick and handy as a 996 GT3 on the track. The 964 is stronger in some areas and the 996 in others. Furthermore, my car, thus equipped regularily runs similar times to similarily experienced drivers in 996 GT3's, especially Mark 1 996 GT3. Obviously those GT3's that have been modified run quicker than my 964 and the cup spec GT3's are another story!!
No, this isn't me telling you how big my **** is or having rose tinted goggles, it is what I have dynoed, what has been timed and what has often surprised me as well, especially the acceleration figures. As stated, I put this down to official timed runs being done two up with full gas which adds about 100kg to the car minimum.
Interestingly, I recently took the chip out as I am getting a Steve Wong Chip made up due to instaling some dougherty DC21 cams and reinserted the OEM chip. The car instantly went from 160rwkw to 144rwkw. As stated, Porsche cars Australia on their dyno roughly equates a 1.32 multiplication factor to get crank power so that becomes 211kw down to 185kw or therabouts.
Same day, same hour, same ambient temperature, same official Porsche cars Australia dyno and same Porsche qualified engineer.
I also agree with race 911, that a the end of the day, the absolute best money is spent on driver training. There are plenty of people with stock cars beating those with modified cars and furthermore, I would take handling improvements over power gains anyday as the handling usually results in better net lap time gains. I know the biggest lap time improvements I got were when i fitted adjustable 24mm swaybars front and rear and upgraded to HR reds.
Also, I am also a big fan of taking weight out, however my car is also enjoyed off season with a babyseat in the back and I don't want to gut it. I have had gutted racecars before and I didn't want to take this route with my 911. It is lighter than stock however as i have RS type seats installed during the motorsport season that save about 40kgs so I am led to believe. I know when I lifted out the factory seats they were VERY heavy.
According to my unit converter for power, I get the following.
Firstly, 210kw as I stated mine has at the crank is only the same power as a 993 varioram. Pretty reasonable to expect considering the 993 and 964 are essentially the same, the 993 simply has better breathing for both intake and exhaust. And according to my calculations, 210kw is actually 282 HP NOT 335HP. This is a 24kw increase at the crank over stock which I would think is perfectly reasonable for a chip, exhaust and intake upgrade.
Acceleration runs that are conducted in car magazines are usually done with 2 people in the car and a full tank of gas. In my case it is one person in the car and a quarter of a tank so a 100kg plus weight saving. And yes, i was as surprised as you that my car got into the 12's and sub 5's 0-100km/h. Perhaps launching on sticky track tyres also helped, who knows.
As for the GT3, I have driven both cars back to back on many occasions and if you search on this forum, a recent post compared both and several of us noted, the same thing and that is a well modded 964 is just as quick and handy as a 996 GT3 on the track. The 964 is stronger in some areas and the 996 in others. Furthermore, my car, thus equipped regularily runs similar times to similarily experienced drivers in 996 GT3's, especially Mark 1 996 GT3. Obviously those GT3's that have been modified run quicker than my 964 and the cup spec GT3's are another story!!
No, this isn't me telling you how big my **** is or having rose tinted goggles, it is what I have dynoed, what has been timed and what has often surprised me as well, especially the acceleration figures. As stated, I put this down to official timed runs being done two up with full gas which adds about 100kg to the car minimum.
Interestingly, I recently took the chip out as I am getting a Steve Wong Chip made up due to instaling some dougherty DC21 cams and reinserted the OEM chip. The car instantly went from 160rwkw to 144rwkw. As stated, Porsche cars Australia on their dyno roughly equates a 1.32 multiplication factor to get crank power so that becomes 211kw down to 185kw or therabouts.
Same day, same hour, same ambient temperature, same official Porsche cars Australia dyno and same Porsche qualified engineer.
I also agree with race 911, that a the end of the day, the absolute best money is spent on driver training. There are plenty of people with stock cars beating those with modified cars and furthermore, I would take handling improvements over power gains anyday as the handling usually results in better net lap time gains. I know the biggest lap time improvements I got were when i fitted adjustable 24mm swaybars front and rear and upgraded to HR reds.
Also, I am also a big fan of taking weight out, however my car is also enjoyed off season with a babyseat in the back and I don't want to gut it. I have had gutted racecars before and I didn't want to take this route with my 911. It is lighter than stock however as i have RS type seats installed during the motorsport season that save about 40kgs so I am led to believe. I know when I lifted out the factory seats they were VERY heavy.
As to magazine times and testing procedure, do you have a link to back this up?
From what I've seen, the average 1/4 mile magazine times are about a 13.4. You are claiming 12.5. A 9 tenths reduction with an addition 35bhp is difficult to believe, even with race rubber
The story changes a little bit. You said "my car pulls as hard as a 996 GT3". Now it seems to be "my car is as good on the track".
Those are two very separate things. I can imagine that a track prepped 964 could hang ok with a 6 GT3...but
282bhp and 2800lbs (i'm being generous here) does not pull anywhere near as hard as 355bhp and 3000lbs.
You got it sweetie.
01-20-2011, 11:27 AM
#45
That new turbo S is really something. One US magazine has gotten 10.8 @ 128 mph IIRC. Unreal.
