sml

i did some calcs .. so lets say 100km/h .. so the decent driver at 3 secs per lap faster would be 83m ahead of me. guess that is not much .. maybe it is more like double.

Unkle - what are your thoughts on the breakdown of laptime improvements? ie driver, tyres, suspension, pads, etc.

IanR

+1.

Like Unkle, I reckon I'm an OK driver, had a fair bit of tuition. Last time at Spa I was lapping at 3:00. A decent driver in my car on the same day managed a 2:52.

Unkle

TBH i don't disagree with the others in this thread so i didn't comment on laptimes to parts. Jimjacqmx5, NineMeister and clubrcr have it all covered.

I don't look at times, but i base it on the fact that i have given my car to people on tracks and they have managed to carry more speed, brake later and carry better exit speed compared to me. Adding that all up works out more than 3 secs normally, but for me its just enjoying the day. Even chasing people visually on a track can be dangerous, let alone times, so i don't like to do it.

I would like to here how you get on on your next track day. Good luck!

boxsey911

As another benchmark I got my 964 around Silverstone this year in 2:39 on Toyo R888s. A few weeks later a friend of mine who races 964s took it around in 2:25 on Michelin Pilot sport cups. Track conditions were pretty much the same (slightly damp in places). Most of the improvement in time I would say was down to his ability rather than the slightly different tyres. I think the really good drivers have so much more confidence than the rest of us do. They're much more comfortable in letting the car move around under them and actually using it to their advantage.

I would say that in a similar way you might have been very confident in the way the 924 handled but as yet, you're not as comfortable with the characteristics of the 911. A bit more seat time will see you naturally improve and to improve more you would benefit by sitting next to an instructor who shows you how they move around. It's a lovely feeling when you get to do it yourself

sml

That is 8 secs on 3.00 lap time, so 4 secs on a 1.30 lap time.
So maybe my 2 to 3 secs estimate should be revised to about 5 secs

sml

That is definitely correct. The 924 was set-up hard & low but still with mild understeer so it was easy to push hard, understeer and juggle the accelerator to keep the car in trim. The 911 is very very different!

Oh .. and the rear tyres were installed with the tyre rotation arrows in the wrong direction !?

2002M3Drew

The first thing I would do is ditch the timer. If someone is clocking you and giving you times, ask them to stop. You're just too new at this to even think about lap times. Throw them out the window.

If you need some justification for the times and differences between other cars, think about how much easier it is to drive a modern car like an M3 or a Nissan GTR or a 996/997/Cayman. A novice in an M3 is going to look like superman against a novice in a older 911 that requires you to drive. I know, because I started my DE life in a 2002 M3, and graduated to a 911SC. In the M3, I was king of green group. In the SC, I was a moving chicane. Now, among experienced driver, the car becomes much less of the eqation. Witness at a PCA DE how many well-driven older Porsches keep up with and pass GT3s.

The only equipment considerations you should be thinking about with 6 DEs under your belt are for safety (good tires, not Chinese cheap-o ones, proper belts, solid car) and to provide a good, solid platform to learn on. The rest is seat time. Get as much seat time as possible. Do autocrosses, too. In a few years if you learn how to drive that 964, you'll be a far better driver than your friends in the newer, faster cars. Have fun!

altarchsa

I presume you're familiar with the trick of tapping the brakes on entrance to corners to make the ABS take over control and shut off operation of the AWD system to improve the understeer? I'm not a racer, with only a few autocrosses in my C4, but I have read this in a few places, going all the way back to shortly after the cars were first released.

Henry964

I can relate to your issues because I used to be a winner in the 924 class and now with the 964 I am much slower than my peers...
For me the answer is braking, they brake harder and closer to the end of the straight than me, and I am loosing time every time I brake.
When I had the 924 I wasn´t really worried about breaking something because everything was much cheaper, (tyres, brakes etc) now I am more concerned and more careful, I am working on improvement

Earlydays

The "4 Step" Plan:
1) Track-oriented alignment and corner balance
2) Bridgestone RE11's or Yokohama AD08's...great combination street/track tires
3) Flushed brake system with top quality btake fluid (ie. Ate Blue) and rotors and pads to spec
4) Seat time with a good instructor next to you

911URGE

Read the 3 part article "Wringing Out the Carrera 4" as it may give you some insight on how to drive the C4 and options to improve the car. A copy can be found at http://www.porsche964.co.uk/rev_rep/excellence.htm

beentherebaby

How do wheel spacers "set the car marginally lower" ?

92silver964

I would agree that there is some "marginal" lowering effect due to negative camber. Can't be much though.

Jimjacqmx5

I can only say regarding mods that the two biggest improvements were adjustable swaybars and HR reds. This stopped front rear pitch and general body roll and in conjunction with a good alignment with plenty of camber TOTALLY transformed the car. It felt so much safer at the limit as it was not pitching and rolling all over the place. And yes, I am a smooth driver.
The other major improvemtn from the adjustable swaybars was the massive improvement in turn in which I would imagine is even more an issue with the C4 as they have an even greater tendency to understeer to the apex. Slow turn in and understeer to the apex will result in many seconds lost over the course of a lap.

That said the 911 was a big step up for me from an MX5 (miata) which like the 924 is low powered ad very neutral in it's handling and forgiving at the limit. If you drove the 924 well, you must be a smooth driver as you can't go quick in a low powered car unless you are very smooth.

If you do any mods, do the above but I think it is probably a case of seat time to learn to trust your 911.
I have learnt that it is actually a very forgiving car and very adjustable via the throttle at the limit.
Perhaps get an experienced 911 steerer t drive your car. They can A} show you what it is capable of so you get a sense of trust, and B} immediately sense if your car has any abnormalities in it's set up.

sml

The 1.38 was from some earlier laps in the day. Just picked up the full results and my times decreased to 1.35 about 10 laps later .. so there is an easy 3 second improvement! Still bad but I am feeling slightly better.

So now my target is about 8 secs improvement.