And we think our cars prices are depressed...
10-04-2009, 05:55 AM
#46
I've already stated the reason I didnt buy an N/A 996. However - here's another way to look at it :
Given the horror stories of 964s when they were first sold, would I have bought a 5 year old 964 in the mid-90s? In reality - probably not, for the same reasons.
Perhaps the 996 is simply the modern day 964. Although it seems to have shaken the image off, the 964 was the 911 nobody liked for quite a long time.
Given the horror stories of 964s when they were first sold, would I have bought a 5 year old 964 in the mid-90s? In reality - probably not, for the same reasons.
Perhaps the 996 is simply the modern day 964. Although it seems to have shaken the image off, the 964 was the 911 nobody liked for quite a long time.
10-04-2009, 06:21 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
plus the 996 prices were down even before the economy had its effect. Just was a factor how much lower could they go? the 964 might feel old but that is why I bought it for the raw 911 feel. I am sure the 996 is nice car to drive and have but just not impressed. I guess a moped is fun too but you don't want your friends to see you on it! Guess the 996 is like a fat chick! lol
10-04-2009, 07:31 AM
#48
Nordschleife Master
In the US, Porsche had 3 terrrrible year models ['75-77] caused by vastly misdesigned powerplants. Pulled (head bolt) case threads, torched exhaust valve stem seals, etc. meant rebuilds at well under 100k miles.
These went way beyond the worst 964-levels of leaking oil annoyance.
In the US, these '2.7's have Never thrown off their bad-engine discount on the market. It continues on to today. (except by prior owners throwing in the towel and refitting w/ later SC, or earlier '74 engines... or dumping the exhaust pollution controls & heli-coiling the cases.)
The 996 is in the same league in that its full engine repair consists of engine replacement. (Only, replaced with the same motor & it's roulette table RMS flaw - Doh!)
10-04-2009, 07:58 AM
#49
But for a lot of people, the 964 is not raw at all. It has ABS. It has power steering. Some of them even have 4wd. Compared to the earlier cars, the 964 itself is too refined and is simply not raw enough.
10-04-2009, 12:01 PM
#50
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Ah, but that's a clear example of where people's perceptions are so different. Compared to my TT I agree - the 964 is a lot more raw.
But for a lot of people, the 964 is not raw at all. It has ABS. It has power steering. Some of them even have 4wd. Compared to the earlier cars, the 964 itself is too refined and is simply not raw enough.
But for a lot of people, the 964 is not raw at all. It has ABS. It has power steering. Some of them even have 4wd. Compared to the earlier cars, the 964 itself is too refined and is simply not raw enough.
10-04-2009, 12:51 PM
#51
Race Director
nonsense? I started by giving my opinion that the cars don't have a high 996 value because of their issues. i really don't want to start this again, but if you can't admit that the 996 is a low point in porsche history then nothing I can do about it. Same with teh 964 no gasket in the head issue. Luckily this issue was fixed by porsche or most owners over the years andyour good to go.
The RMS issue seems to be reoccuring with no really good fix from the posts I have read of doing it three or more times in short miles.
The RMS issue seems to be reoccuring with no really good fix from the posts I have read of doing it three or more times in short miles.
10-04-2009, 01:00 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
As I see it, 996s were bought by many that arguably should have not owned one in the first place as much for financial reasons as anything else. But they were mass produced and mass bought. And I'm not one to tell people how to spend (or borrow) money.
But now on the backside of these purchases, many seem to have decided to ditch the car- perhaps irrespective of IMS or other issues (note: how many had their motor grenade, get a new one from Porsche then have it happen again? Not many I'd wager so a "free motor" from Porsche looks like pretty good post purchase support to me). RMS is an annoyance and non-issue as far as I am concerned though many owners would no doubt disagree.
The sellers are more motivated than buyers right now- hence the falling prices. That said they can be well bought with the major issues addressed for a total price that is attractive vs. the alternatives. What does $20k get you in a sports coupe, say BMW? That's a real question btw.
Having said all this, to drive on the street I find the 996 remarkably uninspiring. Its a German Mazda.
And that's not to say its a bad car at all; just lacking in intrinsic characteristics that separate great cars from good ones.
But prepared for track it is totally inspiring and the parts are cheap and plentiful.
In sum I think the 964/993 to be a better street car (though very capable on the track) and the 996 platform a better track option. YMMV. Having owned all three models that's my current opinion.
But now on the backside of these purchases, many seem to have decided to ditch the car- perhaps irrespective of IMS or other issues (note: how many had their motor grenade, get a new one from Porsche then have it happen again? Not many I'd wager so a "free motor" from Porsche looks like pretty good post purchase support to me). RMS is an annoyance and non-issue as far as I am concerned though many owners would no doubt disagree.
The sellers are more motivated than buyers right now- hence the falling prices. That said they can be well bought with the major issues addressed for a total price that is attractive vs. the alternatives. What does $20k get you in a sports coupe, say BMW? That's a real question btw.
Having said all this, to drive on the street I find the 996 remarkably uninspiring. Its a German Mazda.
And that's not to say its a bad car at all; just lacking in intrinsic characteristics that separate great cars from good ones.
But prepared for track it is totally inspiring and the parts are cheap and plentiful.
In sum I think the 964/993 to be a better street car (though very capable on the track) and the 996 platform a better track option. YMMV. Having owned all three models that's my current opinion.
10-04-2009, 01:41 PM
#53
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While we don't own a 996, we do own a Boxster which of course also uses the M96 engine.
IMHO owners of M96 equipped cars can be broken into 2 groups, those who purchased their cars 4-5 years ago or more, and those who recently purchased their cars.
The latter group has purchased wonderful cars for the price, and hopefully have prepared themselves for any type of catastrophic failure.
The first group purchased their cars in good faith (at full price), only to later find out about the potential for catastrophic engine failure. Coupled with a crashing resale value, this group may feel left out in the cold and a banded by the Porsche faithful.
Which is why this topic may touch a nerve with some.
If one has the coin for a Boxster, or 996, and is willing to foot the bill for the potential repairs, these cars may be a screaming buy at the moment.
IMHO owners of M96 equipped cars can be broken into 2 groups, those who purchased their cars 4-5 years ago or more, and those who recently purchased their cars.
The latter group has purchased wonderful cars for the price, and hopefully have prepared themselves for any type of catastrophic failure.
The first group purchased their cars in good faith (at full price), only to later find out about the potential for catastrophic engine failure. Coupled with a crashing resale value, this group may feel left out in the cold and a banded by the Porsche faithful.
Which is why this topic may touch a nerve with some.
If one has the coin for a Boxster, or 996, and is willing to foot the bill for the potential repairs, these cars may be a screaming buy at the moment.
