Phase II Completed - Recaro and Harness Install
 

Spent the past month on the following projects:

Installed Cup Bypass and Cat Bypass (pita but well worth it)
Replaced entire carpet with original 964 RS carpet (pita!)
Installed AP car design rear bolt-in cage, powdercoated in white with cross bar. Roll bar bolted to the floor and rear wheel arches:
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02972.jpg

Installed Schroth 6 point harness
Parts:
- Deist eye bolt to mount lap belt to center tunnel (easy)
- "Outside" mounting eye attached to original seat belt mount (easy)
- BK mount for sub belt mounted between the sliders and seat (pita!)

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02978.jpg
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02991.jpg
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02992.jpg

Still need some roll bar padding to hold the shoulder belts appart.

Guess I'm done now - just waiting for better weather

Looks good, I would have painted the Recaro seat backs white too just like the factory RS cars did.

Care to go into more detail, more pics?? I'm considering the BK9031 bar too. Did a test fit of one seat and don't see how the stock tunnel side seat belt receptacle can possibly fit, maybe if the console is cut down

Did the BK sub bars require much modification to get them to fit right? Are you using Recaro sliders?

Here are some more pictures of the inside and outside lap belt mounts. I would not recommend mounting the inside lap belt to the seat but to the tunnel itself as shown. Inside lap belt mount:
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02999.jpg
Outside lap belt mount:
http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02993.jpg

I have the Recaro sliders as well and they need modification for the BK bar to fit because the sliders are too close together for the bar (it is too wide). I had to cut out the sliders for the bar to fit with my Dremel. Sorry no pictures.

Yeah, Thanks VERY MUCH for that!!!!!!!!! Now I can't get up from the computer desk:thumbup:

More pics of your car please.................:cheers:

exactly how i have mine, in the right place according the the RS sheet metal work dimensions.

Here you go:

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/dsc02961.jpg

Thanks!, I have a harness mount on the tunnel like you show on yours, how did you attach the stock seat belt receptical on the tunnel side? I've been trying to use the RS bracket but it sure doesn't fit well(maybe not at all)

The BK 9031 bar doesn't fit between the Recaro sliders?

I asked BK about this, they said that you just have to drill the slders for the 9031mounting bolts, Hmmmm???

All Porsche did on the RS was add weld in T nuts at the tunnel and the floor for the substrap and center belt. LIke this:

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/ngt.jpg

Why not just fit the hardware circled below in the center tunner where Porsche used the T nuts?

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/deist.jpg

The BK 9031 bar fits within the sliders but not within the seat mounts. I had to carve out the seat mounts to get the bar in between the sliders and the seat mounts. In my car, the stock seat belt receptical on the tunnel side is mounted between the sliders and seat side mounts with a bracket that looks like this (available at Stable Energies). There is enough room but it is tight:

http://www.stableenergies.com/images/9005.jpg

That's exactly what I did - sorry if that wasn't clear.

Ok that's pretty much what I have except w/ factory parts

RS tunnel side stock seat belt mount & washers(black) for height leveling, Recaro flat sliders(
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1229560115.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1229560140.jpg

here's a mock up
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1229804000.jpg

I also have Recaro sidemounts, but the BKs lower the seat, maybe too much, I'll need to get some butten heads which may give the clearance needed between the seat bottom and the sidemounts. Otherwise it's back to the Recaro side mounts.

yes, I have the tunnel mounts for the harness, thought I'd try the clip ons at the stock mount to see how that would work, looks like not too well.

Bill, the stock center bracket goes between the upper track slider and the seat's side plates on the stock RS with the 928 sliders. This means that seat belt loads are transmitted across the slider set to the floor.

The other 3 seat corners require 8 X 27 X 3 mm spacer washers( part number 999 025 231 03) to space them up to match. This is shown as part #23 in the PET illustration.

Also, I am not sure the Recaro sliders you are using are built for these seat belt loads. I would bolt the seat belt mount between the sliders and the floor and use the spacer washers under the track as well.

yes, You can see that in the pics in Post #12, the washer in the forward tunnel side position is clearly visible


The recaro sliders appear to be beefier than the 928s, it's certainly hard to assess. If the L bracket is mounted under the sliders then it's fixed like the harness mount, that's what I am trying to avoid. It's ok for the harness, which will be mounted through the side hole but not the rigid stock belt receiver.

I'm wondering if I was sold the wrong side mounts, as there seems to be interference between the sidemounts and the GRP seat base. Grrrrr!

I was also hoping that the sub belt bar could be similarly sandwiched

This is always a problem since there is a several centimeter difference in each of the seat widths whether it is a SPG, XL, Pole, factory RS or whatever and neither Recaro or anyone else seems to get this right vis a vis supplying the correct side plate.

I wasn't happy with the standard seat belt receivers - they fouled the tunnel and I didn't like how the belt went over the side of the recaro seat meaning that the lap belt wasn't snug. So I fitted the redundant rear seat belt receivers. By cutting away the plastic to expose the webbing these were flexible enough so that they could be routed through the hole in the seat. By also routing the belt through the other side, the lap belt now acts as it should when using the 3 point belt.

You can see the receiver protruding through the seat hole in this pic:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...y/SDC10051.jpg

The only down side is that it might be difficult to use for any one with a fuller figure :icon107:

Bill,

if you are by any chance anywhere close to the NY metro area, I could stop by and help you.

Frank

Hi Steve,
Can you please tell me the model Recaros' that you have??

Frank (in Oz), they're pole positions in ambelia leather with suede cushions.

all the best, Steve.

i'm looking forward to a few laps in the improved car now steve....

Thanks Steve,
They're just beautiful!

car looks great.

i think we should create a single how-to thread to strip out a stock 964 interior and install RS carpets, roll bar, seats, harnesses , etc.
this would be a great reference as many people here are doing this project.

agreed, the seats alone seem to be a black art:banghead:

the seats were easy, my recaros just bolted straight in?

i'm sure i have plenty of pictures from my stripout, including all the swearing about the glue!

???Parts used list,
here's mine
Recaro Profi SPG XL x2
BK Side mounts x2 R-9066
side to slider rail x10 ???M8?? M6 button heads?? anything else interferes w/ the GRP seat base
slider rail to chassis x12 M8x24-1.25 g12.9 or 8.8
side to seat x8 M8x25.4 g12.9 or 8.8
Recaro sliders x2 sets re 0.70.9NT

looks like I'll need to grind away some of the sidemount flange at the rear

Recaro Profi SPG XL x2 also...

Recaro ALUMINIUM sidemounts (maybe there are different to your stateside incorrectly spelt ones ;))

On hang on - i just remembered something. I bolted all of that direct to the floor, i dont need to slide the seats, and wanted the extra height. I still only have just enough helmet clearance...

Any pics of the install??

I also have steel Recaro sidemounts w/ 2 holes in the rear position(1 was drilled by the p/o) the upper one provides too much clearance at the seat base the lower is pretty much the same as the BK sidemounts, maybe worse due to the wide flanges
see below
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1230418260.jpg


Slider less may be the way to go here, any tips on that method?

you may find them too high with sliders...

I got the perfect drving position just hard bolted.

i'm 5ft11 and like a close steering wheel.

IIRC i had to have the bases backwards, ie the two holes at front and four at back.

Its not that far forward - but here is a pic of me in the XL's hard bolted.

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/XSP_0119.jpg

like thus

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o...end/recaro.jpg

Bill- Note the ones specified for the Profi XL are aluminum, not steel, pictured in upper right below.

[IMG]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/g...Recarojpeg.jpg[/IMG]

Interesting, the fellow I bought the seat and mounts from also had the brackets mounted backwards from usual in his 993. I'll try that, see what happens.

Thanks, Recaro doesn't list it but there is a steel and an aluminum version of the sidemounts for XL seats

I'm going to grind down the sidemount flanges and use button head bolts, that may gain the necessary clearance.

it's an adventure

The bolts shown in PET for the seats are special low profile as pictured, the gold one is from Porsche, the silver is normal height.

[IMG]http://i541.photobucket.com/albums/g...pcar/bolts.jpg[/IMG]

I had some 'normal' (black oxide-coated, steel alloy) socket head cap screws (SHCS) milled down to the head height of that yellowish SHCS, shown.
The alloy's remaining socket is still more than enough deep to take substantial installation/reinstallation torques. Unlike that factory yellow.
It's far stronger than that lead-soft factory seat screw. (how I hate 'em!)

...food for thought of an alternative.

fwiw, both the bolts shown are probably zinc coated, I think. And the yellowish hue is from a hexavalent chromate (HC) coating on top of that. I understand that that HC is on its way out. It's already banned on European autos. World carcinogenic police.
I think.

Good idea to start with a 12.9 bolt and cut it if you can, the factory gold bolts are grade 8.8 and do tend to distort at the recommended torque.

The bolts shown are years old "new old stock" and most likely were cadmium plated when the carcinogen police were not so prevalent.

Thanks again, I have some M6 button heads that look like they will clear, I'll have some M8 10.9s that I prefer tomorrow, I'll keep my fingers crossed

My seat parts were as follows...

Recaro Pole Positions
Speedware Aluminum Sidemounts
Recaro sliders
Euro GT3 Sub Bars


If anyone wants specifics or pics of my install, just let me know.

Having read many, many threads on here about fitting recaro seats, I think 'black art' is a perfect description of it. On the advice of a number of UK Rennlisters and Ninemeister I contacted Southbound Trimmers who having become aware of the problem some time ago, decided to manufacture their own side mounts. Along with Recaro sliders (pre-drilled to bolt on a 964 floor) which are supplied as part of the kit, the seats sit as low as possible to ensure there is a maximum headroom. This is very much a buy the kit and bolt in solution for fitting Recaro seats.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...y/P6201291.jpg

The only criticism I would aim at these side mounts is that the position of the welded in seat belt attachment point doesn't work well with the normal 3 point receiver (hence my use of the rear seat beat receivers as mentioned earlier).

Anypics or details on how the GT3 sub bars went in?

Curious about the Speedware sidemounts too??

Thanks, very Interesting, I can guarantee that no cap or hex head bolt will work w/ either Bk 9062(6) or Recaro(mounted normally & in the low position) . M6 button head seems to clear and i'll try M8 button head today.

They have a welded on reinforced spot for the tunnel side stock seta belt receiver? You guys are having better luck w/ the rear seat belt receivers? I'll have to try that.

The GT3 sub bars are a pretty good fit. They only need to be slightly modified to get them to fit. I wasn't very happy with the speedware sidemounts. The only reason I used them was because they originally sent me the wrong Recaro sidemounts and there were no Recaro sidemounts available in the timeframe I needed for the track season.

If I was going to do this on another 964, I would do aluminum Recaro sidemounts and the GT3 sub bar. I think this combo provides for a pretty easy install.

Here is a pic when I was mocking everything up.

Here's a better view of the reinforced spot that takes the seat belt receiver:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...y/P6201290.jpg

And here's a pic of the mounts and the recaro sliders fitted to the car. In this pic the standard front receiver has been fitted but I later found that the more flexible rear receivers worked better for me.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...y/P6261313.jpg

very nice!!, and the rear bolts clear Pole position seat bottoms in the back??

Excellent! I usually see the GT3 sub bar mounted further back, Schroth wants straight down to 20* back on the subs,

It appears that the sub bar is sandwiched between the slider and the sidemount, do you know the thickness of the bar plate where it is sandwiched?

The sub bar is mounted on top of the side mounts, sandwiched between the washers and the side mounts.

Yeah if memory serves, that's the only way it could work for some reason.

I measured the degree on the substraps and they were right about 20 degrees or so. Valve Float could probably clarify, but I think the belts come up more or less straight through the holes in the seat.

Although the rear bolts just cleared the seat, it was safer to take a few mm off them to be sure (you can just about see that in the pic). Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it all sorted soon.

Thanks, that does make more sense, that is the Porsche oem 996 GT3 sub bar pictured, right?

It looks identical to part 11 shown here, but you would have to confirm with 917k that they are the actual Porsche parts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1229709107.gif

Yep that's them. They are straight off the Euro GT3 seats and can be ordered individually from Porsche. They are $50-60 each if memory serves. I also just looked at my GT3 that I recently put Euro GT3 (Recaro) seats in. On these seats the sidemount bolts to the slider and sub bar mounts on top not sandwiched under the slider. I can take a pic if necessary.

Thanks, this is all great to know. Hopefully others down the road will have a clearer path.

Funny I just went to the tech website for our local PCA to look around and see what was up.

A guy wanted to install a harness kit into his new C4S for track use by bolting it to the slider tracks as in the GT3 so as not to drill holes in his new car.

Several people pointed out to the questioner that this was against our rules and that the entire harness had to be bolted directly to the chassis (subs, sides and shoulders) and could not use the seat tracks as a mounting point.

So local rules may play a part in deciding how to mount a harness kit.

Thanks for bringing that up Cupcar. PCA racing rules clearly state that sub harnesses should be bolted through the floor. Everyone needs to asses what level of safety equipment they are comfortable with and what the local PCA region requires when they are adding this type of stuff to the car. There are lots of GT3 guys here in Portland who run the sub bar setup, but that doesn't mean it will fly anywhere.

Where can I get my hands on the dimensions?

Anyone have any pics sans carpet?

Cheers.

Reading this thread has made me think twice about who I should work with to install Recaro PPs. I could order the southbound item from the UK but the setup is already expensive down here. The importance of a properly attached seat is highlighted in this doc. just released by the Australian Motorsport mob.

http://www.cams.com.au/downloads/abo...rst_Report.pdf

Has anyone else in Australia installed Pole Positions who could share some local suppliers details?

Sure, images 3 & 4 located in the Body Volume on page 51-102 of the FSM

http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/ngt_belts_large.jpg

The Southbound mounting point is only meant for the normal 3 point receiver. If fitting motorsport harnesses aswell the inside harness should really be attached to the tunnel as shown earlier in this thread.

my sub belt is floor mounted - then sealed up very well!!!

It's true that PCA requires that the subs be bolted to the floor

but

John H. makes a good point in this thread about the alternative of using a bar

In addition the fact the the factory uses a bar is an indicator of their feelings.

The big question is , What other reinforcement to the floor mounts and sliders did the factory use on 996/997 that isn't used on 964/993? I sure dunno

I'll take a close look at all the hardware on my GT3 tonight and try to compare and contrast the parts since I have now done this on the 964 and 996.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread - you all seem very knowledgable :thumbup:

Here is my problem,

The Recaro seat mounts holes line up perfectly with the Recaro runners. However when I place the seatbelt bracket between the two the holes no longer line up. All this to say the holes in the seatbelt bracket seem too close together...

Should I be drilling the Recaro seat mounts and Recaro runners too match the seat belt bracket holes?

Do I have the wrong Porsche seat belt mounts, should they be BK ?

Or am I missing something?

It really is a black art!

Pictures paint a better picture of my issue...

TA

You need to drill and use extra 3mm washers, I used button head bolts to gain a bit of clearance
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1241467234.jpg

Bill- Where is the crotch belt bar from?

Thanks Bill. It just seems such a shame to drill through the Recaro mounts and runners that align perfectly in order for the belt mounts? Also if I did this the extra drilled holes would merge into one.... as per the photo illustrates.

So this is what you did?

Frank, like Bill says, the mounts and sliders generally need some drilling to make things fit unless you buy the original RS sliders and mounts directly from Porsche. Both of the latter are made by Recaro but were specifically made for Porsche, hence have all the holes in the right places.

IIRC your seats/mounts/sliders are second hand. Whoever bought them did some drilling themselves. I guess they didn't use the Porsche seat belt bracket hence they did not drill holes in exactly the places required for the bracket and why that you've now got a problem using it.

Looking at your pics, I guess you could elongate one (or both) of the holes on the bracket with a drill (turn it into a slot) so that it lines up with the holes in the slider. Since the bracket is then firmly clamped between the mount and the slider, it should still be plenty strong enough.

Good thoughts Steve I'll see if making a slot would work.

GT3, it has 3mm thick ends that match the 3mm washers

996.521.933.90

Danke schön, as I expected but not sure.

Will this set from the Sport Topline work for The Pole Positions? They seem to have the seat belt mount already part of the assembly. Or are the PP mounts different?

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I was curious about the AP roll bar. (very little comes up in search) The one you have shows a cross bar. The bolt in bar on their site does not have cross bar. (see pic)

Did you have that cross bar welded in?

Many thanks to you or anyone who can assist.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c12c10b09a.jpg

I have this set up, nice and easy to fit. Seats are so low my girlfriend can't drive the car any more! My only criticism is that the sliders rattle when no one is in the passenger seat, does my nut in. I have to remember distribute the grease on them every other week to try keep the noise down. It a a tight first to get the standard belts in as well as the harnesses.