993 Vram engine in a 964?
 

What is involved with installing a complete 993 VRAM engine in a 964 C2? Assuming you had the ECU along with the 993 engine.

Am sure one of the guys on here had a 964 with a 993 engine and gearbox but his name escapes me. If a search doesn't dig up anything one of the others might remember who it was.

check with this guy, www.instant-g.com

Greg, I think that Bill Verburg could probably answert that question with a lot more accuracy, but I would be mostly concerned about the wiring harness. There's a lot more going on electronically with an OBD2 VRAM motor than with the 964 or even the 95 993 motor.

One question though; why would you want to do that? The 6 speed trans will bolt in, and for probably less money, you could rebuild your 964 motor and have more hp, IMHO.

I think the engine itself fits. The exhaust is a bit of a headache IIRC from other threads.

I always thought that would be a good fit with the six speed transmission. I have heard the exhaust is the hardest part of doing a conversion. If you dont live in CA you would be able to do just about any exhaust for it. I think the stock system will not fit under the 964.

I haven't posted it yet because I am trying to find out more detail about what happened, but my engine suddenly has "issues". Therefore, I'm exploring multiple options including either repairing mine or finding a replacement engine. Coincidentally, a 96 Vram motor was posted for sale here on rennlist the other day. So, I thought I'd ask. But it sounds like the 95 993 engine would be an easier swap than the later vram. And of course, a 964 engine would be easiest.

I can see why Timmins uses the VRAMs in his old cars. He has to change everything anyway regardess of what 3.6 he uses. The 964 motor, with a proper exhaust, larger injectors and a mass flow intake will produce 300 hp easily and reliably. And if you raise the compression to the factory spec'd 11.3, you'll get all of the torque that the VRAM gives you. Unless you are looking at a very good, very cheap 993 motor, I'd stay with a 964 motor.

Greg,

I swapped the 964 motor to a 97 European V Ram one weekend . I kept the 964 exhaust system . The 993 exhaust offers very little for performance !
The DME/wirirng loom swap was very straight foward .

Because of what I do it required very little thought !

For other reasons ,the motor went from V Ram back to the 95 intake system .

300 bhp is no big deal . If I can help with the thoughts PM me .

Geoff
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KS400200,the oldest 964 on Rennlist,unless you know differently !

Randall G was the long-time Rennlister who put a 993 engine/6spd into his C2. Sold it (having owned it since new) a year or so back. He wrote up some running reports on John Miles 964 site. IIRC his main installation issue was the harness.

I swapped a euro OBD1(55pin harness) vram into my '95, no biggie.

Not sure what issues would arise from an OBD2(88pin harness) swap

Geoff,
I am very curious about your assertion that the 993 exhaust offers little over the 964 exhaust. I seem to have been hearing from sources everywhere that the stock 964 system is very poor and that most of the horsepower gains from 964 to 993 came via the better exhaust. can you shed any light on this?

Thanks,
Darren

" Geoff,
I am very curious about your assertion that the 993 exhaust offers little over the 964 exhaust. I seem to have been hearing from sources everywhere that the stock 964 system is very poor and that most of the horsepower gains from 964 to 993 came via the better exhaust. can you shed any light on this?

Thanks,
Darren "

Darren ,

As a major Euro Porsche tuner with his own Maha RR I did a lot of power measurements in all areas on my 964 .
The 964 header is good .The cat I replaced with a good , straight through replacement pipe .For noise level I had a very high quality ,primary, made and a near new secondary went on .
( The standard 964 primary is a very poor flow concept but had Swiss noise levels to contend with ! )
This is all on a Euro 97 993 motor running OBDI . Power measurements showed no loss for the 993 in spite of the 964 exhaust .

This was not suprising as most of the 993 power improvement came from a far superior DME/AFM etc system . The Euro 993 exhaust was primarily to reduce the exhaust noise levels to the required Euro regulation levels ! but trying to hold the power level .
The US etc 993 exhaust system is majored , dual O2 , for emmission control .

That does not stop the dream levels !! The industry joke is the removal of the 964 secondary muffler for power !!!!! leaving the standard primary in place !

Hope that helps understanding .



Geoff

I am looking for some advice and been doing a lot of research on someone Qualified to do a conversion on my 1979 911SC. Looking to go VRAM with cams, solid rockers and other goodies. Any help would be appreciated. I have been talking to Timmins, Weiner, and some local builders in the NY area.

Thanks,

Nick

On this side of the pond mark (Fuch) did it a while back, he will be going to pastures new
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