Bill Verburg

Truer words were never spoken, Being an old guy, I kept AC, PS and P/W

race911

No kidding. Kim went full tilt de-everythinging the yellow car. Which I'll be taking the out shortly for a 1/2 hr ride down to where we're doing our weekly get-together. And while I love the sound of the engine, after awhile a simple radio to listen to a baseball game or something to pass the time is welcome. (Or to get a traffic report if "something" happens on 880............)

christallon

This latest input to our thread now begs the question: Is a stripped down RS America (maybe even not so stripped down) the perfect platform to build a great Replica from? Many of the RSA's for sale have had the suspension, clutch/flywheel, roll cage, seats, etc. work already done. Heck the brakes, LSD, Lt Wt interior, door panels etc, and manual rack come standard. For somewhere in the $40K range plus specific add ons to suit your taste, like RSR camber plate, tie rods, etc. say $10-$15K , you might have the perfect package that retains it's value, by virtue of it being an RSA to begin with. $55K all in is not a bad deal for a fantastic car that can be driven anywhere.

Thoughts???

CWay27

Yep and I've got the car just for you. A perfect white RSA

christallon

Carl,

You have mail

tonytaylor

There are lots of valid reasons for puirchasing and owning an RS lightweight, N/GTclubsport, or cup car but none of these reasons really apply to the recreation of a replica.

If you want the best 964 track/race car you're as well to start with a standard 964 shell. Geofferys race car project on this forum is a near perfect example of how to build such a track car.

Similarly if you want all the comforts of a road car but a little extra ability on track a mildly modified C2 will give 95% of the RS experience on track with far better road manners.

The 964RS was a well judged package in it's time but things have moved on and there are better parts available both from Porsche and reputable aftermarket suppliers than those fitted to the factory cars and there are many proven upgrades that have found their way onto the RS variants as well.. I think it ought to be remebered the RS was simply a factory modified 964.

My C2 is if anything more extensively modified for the track than Thomas C2. A number of the options on the 9M recreations debuted on my C2 and I can't help wondering how much their work on this car influenced the idea in the first place.

My recipe for a C2,

suspension
Cargraphic clubsport (H+R Supercups) coilovers with uniball top mounts
964 RS sway bars
993RS front hubs
993RS front wishbones

brakes
993tt front clipers and discs
965 rear caliper 964RS rear disc
993tt hydraulic brake servo and ABS
pagid RS19 pads

steering
kept the power steering (RS manual rack is too much like hard work for me)
993RS tie rods

engine
AMD MAF and chip ( Porsche moved over to using MAF on it's later cars)
custom exhaust ( saves 15kg from the cat backwards, the standard exhaust isn't very RS in weight terms)
cat bypass
open airbox cover
RS single pulley fan conversion
RS engine mounts

gearbox
993 RS G50/32 supercup 6spd
RS flywheel and clutch
RS tranny mounts

interior
recaro spg seats
safety devices full cage
Sabelt 6 pt harnesss
lightweight carpets
delete sound proofing
no radio
no door panels

body
carbon fiber front hood, rear deck lid, RSA rear wing, doors ( the retention of the electric spoiler on the RS models is perverse - it's very heavy)
manual windows
manual mirrors
6kg battery
RS type working front airducts
delete rear wiper
delete large washer bottle

wheels
18insGT1 Veloce ( 32kg a set)
235/265 Dunlop DO2Gs

current weight about 1170kg

to come soon

engine rebuild probably to "Christer" spec
delete sunroof
carbon fiber front wings

things I wish I'd done

strip shell and weld in full cage

christallon

Thanks for your info Tony,

Sounds like the "stuff"!!! How do you plan to handle the sunroof delete piece. I have been thinking about what is entailed with this effort.

Cheers

deoxford

Tony,
Can you tell me more about this?
AMD MAF and chip ( Porsche moved over to using MAF on it's later cars)
custom exhaust ( saves 15kg from the cat backwards, the standard exhaust isn't very RS in weight terms)


I have already done a complete top end rebuild with LWT flywheel and chutch
along with the cat bypass, primary bypass and open airbox cover with and "RS type " chip
But I think I need a new MAF sensor, and you tell me more about those parts and the set up and results

tonytaylor

Sunroof delete will be way of a "new" roof skin.

Derek,

964 uses a flap type airflow meter for the ECU that is both restrictive and relatively inaccurate at estimating the amount of oxygen getting to the engine. A MAF is a mass air flow meter that uses a platignium wire to calculate the "mass" of oxygen. It's not a simple swap as you need an electrical box of tricks to convert the MAF signal into one the ECU believes comes from the original airflow meter.

forklift

I am still kicking myself for buying a RSA w/ a sunroof and might do this some day, probably when I get a custom cage.

I haven't driven an RS or Cup, but would have to think that my car w/ a manual rack, full mono *****, 900/750 springs, and JRZs would feel as good or better than a stock RS or Cup ON TRACK. On the road mine sucks. I have ridden in a 90 Euro Cup a few times (Bob!), but not driven one.

I think w/ no sunroof$$, welded cage$$, better chip, and a R&P$$, my car would be close (as fast) as an RS around the track.

I think a C class/prepared RSA and a D class US Cup car (Euro RS) are about the same and what my car would be if I did the chip and R&P.

tonytaylor

If I knew then what I know now I'd strip the car to the shell, seam weld, weld in a cage,new sunroofless roof, dip the whole thing and repaint.

That 30kg sitting up there is eating at my heart and the damn thing doesn't even work anymore.

forklift

At least my sunroof works, although since I carry my race tires on the roof, the wind noise is crazy loud, so I really don't ever use it.

I thought about the strip, weld, cut, and re-weld, like Geoffery did. However, that would probably turn my $3k roof into a $23k roof....w/ the car still only worth $35k incl the $12k suspension. I guess I would have an almost new car at that point....after the engine and tranny rebuild. This is depressing, maybe I should just save up for a 996 GT3, it might be cheaper.

SimonExtreme

The AMD MAF conversion was developed by Red Rooster on this board and the best results were on cars during his era. It's not a simple "chip" but a live remap. IMO, you need to be very careful with this conversion because there are certainly some who do it who see little or no gain, particularly those that involve a standardised chip. My car has the conversion by AMD, with a decat, cup pipe, K&N filter and modified intake. I haven't seen another 964 make more power with standard injectors and Motronics (without a blower!)

Not really! They were built on seperate lines and it wasn't simply a case of modifying. The 3.2 clubsport was a modified 3.2 but the RS is different. It was designed from the ground up. It started with the chassis/body (which was modified!!) but much was made just for the RS, rather than modifying standard stuff. Engines were assembled specifically for the car, gear ratios were made, LSD's etc etc. What makes the RS so special is the way it all comes together. I personally think there is a lot of luck in it because only minor changes alter the character noticably. The 993RS looses some of that feel, even though it might be a better all round car, because the changes just dulls it a little.

tonytaylor

I heard that in ££££.... sad, but we'll never see any of the money spent on upgrades back lol , you need those as well Once saw a forum post re: sale of a GT£ that had done some moderate track time up for £45K that stated the car had cost the same in track upgrades and maintainance. This after having done £45k in depreciation. A Gt3 might be an upgrade but I'm not that sure you can justify it as a cost saving neasure

N51

Whole heartily agree! Except for the "luck". Porsche got it right through excellence in engineering. While many of us will modify, the 964RS/Cup cars will forever remain the benchmark.

Noah