Perfromance upgrade parts.....UK if poss.
05-22-2007, 09:50 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
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He is staying there thank you !
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
05-22-2007, 10:57 PM
#47
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No need to cross the Atlantic to hear fairy tails.
Todd Knighton, of Protomotive, can map the Motronics you and I have already paid for, to accommodate any engine configuration. Maintain engine diagnostics. Maintain engine knock sensors. Performance with safety.
Noah
Todd Knighton, of Protomotive, can map the Motronics you and I have already paid for, to accommodate any engine configuration. Maintain engine diagnostics. Maintain engine knock sensors. Performance with safety.
Noah
05-22-2007, 11:57 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by N51
No need to cross the Atlantic to hear fairy tails.
Todd Knighton, of Protomotive, can map the Motronics you and I have already paid for, to accommodate any engine configuration. Maintain engine diagnostics. Maintain engine knock sensors. Performance with safety.
Noah
Todd Knighton, of Protomotive, can map the Motronics you and I have already paid for, to accommodate any engine configuration. Maintain engine diagnostics. Maintain engine knock sensors. Performance with safety.
Noah
05-23-2007, 12:21 AM
#49
Three Wheelin'
Why can't the knock link be wired into an auxilliary input on the M48 to provide knock detections / spark retard using the existing sensors? (I assume the m48 has some spare inputs available, i havent looked at the manual for a while)
Kirk
Kirk
05-23-2007, 12:24 AM
#50
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Originally Posted by SimonExtreme
I am confused. This thread is about tuning in the UK. Isn't Todd in the USA? How would that work??
Noah
05-23-2007, 08:35 AM
#51
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Is this getting silly ?? Motec / Motronic , there are fans for both . Some tuners are much more comfortable with one of them .
The argument could rage for ever but you wont change a tuners mind .
I am firmly a Motronic guy and wouldnt know where to start with Motec ! I know several Porsche tuners who are the exact opposite . In my view that doesnt make either side better !!
The point of interest is to understand why , apparently , Motec can acheive better final results. For me that is interesting and something I would like to understand so that the Motronic maps could be altered to match Motec results.
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
The argument could rage for ever but you wont change a tuners mind .
I am firmly a Motronic guy and wouldnt know where to start with Motec ! I know several Porsche tuners who are the exact opposite . In my view that doesnt make either side better !!
The point of interest is to understand why , apparently , Motec can acheive better final results. For me that is interesting and something I would like to understand so that the Motronic maps could be altered to match Motec results.
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
05-23-2007, 09:07 AM
#52
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Geoff
I don't know enough about the Motronics to be able to truly compare what you can achieve with them. However, I do know that I looked long and hard for somebody in the UK who could map the Motronics to handle bigger injectors. I also cannot find anybody to do it in Australia. Lots of skill with mappable ECU's such as MOTEC, but none with Motronics.
Therefore, for me, Motronics will never produce more power than you managed to get out of the car with your hot film conversion. Still, 309 bhp isn't too bad. You will also be please to know that when we checked a few months ago the fueling was still spot on.
However, I do know that the heads can flow more air than they are at present. The only way of being able to take advantage of that is, I believe, bigger injectors and therefore MOTEC. I suspect there is 15bhp to be found. I also suspect that could be found with Motronics, if only there were people with experience to do it. Do you want a holiday in Sydney
I don't know enough about the Motronics to be able to truly compare what you can achieve with them. However, I do know that I looked long and hard for somebody in the UK who could map the Motronics to handle bigger injectors. I also cannot find anybody to do it in Australia. Lots of skill with mappable ECU's such as MOTEC, but none with Motronics.
Therefore, for me, Motronics will never produce more power than you managed to get out of the car with your hot film conversion. Still, 309 bhp isn't too bad. You will also be please to know that when we checked a few months ago the fueling was still spot on.
However, I do know that the heads can flow more air than they are at present. The only way of being able to take advantage of that is, I believe, bigger injectors and therefore MOTEC. I suspect there is 15bhp to be found. I also suspect that could be found with Motronics, if only there were people with experience to do it. Do you want a holiday in Sydney
05-23-2007, 09:15 AM
#53
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Simon,
How will you get more Air flow ? The fuelling is just the stuff to burn the air !
I am amazed that you cant find someone to do simple mapping on the good old M2.1 system . Gawd help them if they were working with some of the current 16/32 bit systems used today ! I digress !
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
How will you get more Air flow ? The fuelling is just the stuff to burn the air !
I am amazed that you cant find someone to do simple mapping on the good old M2.1 system . Gawd help them if they were working with some of the current 16/32 bit systems used today ! I digress !
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
05-23-2007, 10:34 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by N51
It was Colin, who with his nebulous suggestion, asked for a NA tuner, not I. How it would work? :-)
Noah
Noah
For the record I am absolutely sure that given enough development someone could get the 993 ecu/loom/MAF/993tt injector combination performing as well as a 9m Motec conversion, indeed I am willing to do the job if asked. What I am not willing to do though is go through the pain of the development work at my own expense and then have a non-viable commercial product due to the cost of buying the new parts required. That said, if someone wants to supply all the parts with their car and agree to pay our workshop rate for all our development time, I'll be happy to do their conversion and would be intrigued to see the result.
Gotta go, have a Motec conversion to map on the dyno .....
05-23-2007, 10:42 AM
#55
Instructor
There doesn't seem to be too much talk about driveability, will the motec drive as nicely as the standard motronic unit?
I think this is the hard part for aftermarket ecu's. getting max power is probably the easiest part of tuning.
I think this is the hard part for aftermarket ecu's. getting max power is probably the easiest part of tuning.
05-23-2007, 12:22 PM
#56
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If I try really hard I can force the Motec system to stall all the time, just like the Motronic on a standard RS if you want?
Seriously, this is the area which we have put an awful lot of time into, to the stage where the Motec cars will pull 5th gear at 500rpm on the idle map, then pull away cleanly at any throttle opening up to the redline. In my opinion the Motec cars drive better than a stock Motronic with more torque everywhere, customers agree and also report improved fuel consumption (but I cannot verify this with results), indeed one customer with a 964 C4 had the Motec conversion purely on the grounds of driveability and idle stability - he was tired of his MAF equipped car stalling at the most in-opportune moments.
Seriously, this is the area which we have put an awful lot of time into, to the stage where the Motec cars will pull 5th gear at 500rpm on the idle map, then pull away cleanly at any throttle opening up to the redline. In my opinion the Motec cars drive better than a stock Motronic with more torque everywhere, customers agree and also report improved fuel consumption (but I cannot verify this with results), indeed one customer with a 964 C4 had the Motec conversion purely on the grounds of driveability and idle stability - he was tired of his MAF equipped car stalling at the most in-opportune moments.
05-23-2007, 06:01 PM
#57
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Colin,
Just picked this up ! The 993 stall problem is a simple software fix !! I thought that one was well known by now !
I guess that Motec gets a little better mpg because it runs open loop ( no lamda probe )and a little leaner than a MOT passworthy lamda +Motronic car does.
What happens for the MOT emmission test with a Motec car ? £100 under the table !!!!!
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
Just picked this up ! The 993 stall problem is a simple software fix !! I thought that one was well known by now !
I guess that Motec gets a little better mpg because it runs open loop ( no lamda probe )and a little leaner than a MOT passworthy lamda +Motronic car does.
What happens for the MOT emmission test with a Motec car ? £100 under the table !!!!!
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
05-23-2007, 07:53 PM
#58
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First of all, the 964 that had stalling issues had been fitted with an AMD MAF conversion (post Geoff leaving) and the customer had returned the car on seven occasions to cure the stalling issue with its LWF. I believe that you tried to help them sort it out via email but in the end the customer lost faith and came to me with the plan for Motec because it was recommended by one of my RS customers.
Motec comes with narrow band lambda control as standard which will work with a conventional Bosch sensor. The full wide band lambda is an option for ecus with the advanced tuning & datalog feature enabled, which obviously exceeds the capability of the Motronic ecu.
Motec comes with narrow band lambda control as standard which will work with a conventional Bosch sensor. The full wide band lambda is an option for ecus with the advanced tuning & datalog feature enabled, which obviously exceeds the capability of the Motronic ecu.
05-23-2007, 08:37 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by NineMeister
The full wide band lambda is an option for ecus with the advanced tuning & datalog feature enabled, which obviously exceeds the capability of the Motronic ecu.
Noah
05-23-2007, 09:39 PM
#60
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Colin,
SEVEN times !! I was asked once and then heard he had given up . Hmmm.
Going back to lamda control, I thought you had said that the version of Motec you use for conversions does not run Lamda control ?Did I get that wrong ?
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !
SEVEN times !! I was asked once and then heard he had given up . Hmmm.
Going back to lamda control, I thought you had said that the version of Motec you use for conversions does not run Lamda control ?Did I get that wrong ?
Geoff
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KS400200 , the oldest 964 on Rennlist , unless you know differently !