Overdraft

The cars are rare - BUT the buyers are rare too. We don't think so when you follow Rennlist because we are the biggest cheering section in the world for air cooled cars...and tend to marvel at the appreciation of them. Fast forward, a nice C2 cab (very clean) is very rare...but always benched off against one that may or may not be. What does that say, at pricing these things is a combination of the car or course - history - pedigree - vendor's marketing - patience - location of car....really is a bit of a black art and timing. When the right buyer, with the right car presents itself..guys have to move quick. Cars with less history and looking just a little out of sorts....have been bought up recently but (in my opinion) are soon to be hanging around. You'll know when you've bumbled on the car for you - and wait for it...because it is out there....but when you do see it...buy it immediately....but I wouldn't buy one for the sake of buying one if you follow that logic.

musiker

Very, very well said!

Mixter

+1

hockenheimr

As the winter freeze comes to an end, banker's are waiting for their bonuses, the economy is on the move while interest rates are still low....and 993 prices are out of the stratosphere...while there are even less 964s for sale. Not that I am looking at prices to sell or to make my car an investment, but more to justify my hefty rehab budget. I think this is the year of the 964!

Edit: I'm calling it....THIS IS THE YEAR OF THE 964!

cobalt

Why do you say this. the 993 is the only market I don't see moving. Yes the rare ultra low mileage C2S/C4S's are seeing considerable increase but the average 100k mile 993 is still somewhat affordable and in many cases similar in price to a late model 964 in similar condition. They were always strong market but I think they don't personify the air cooled 911 in the eyes of most investors the way the bug eye cars do.

u7t2p7

I partially agree with your comments above. In addition to the price increases you mention for the C2S/C4S, the 993TT market took off last year. I'd estimate prices increased by 50% or more. I do agree NB 993's haven't moved as much although finding a nice mid mileage 6 speed coupe for less than $50k is difficult. Let's face it; there are alot more 993's available than 964's, so economics 101 can tell you how prices will react, even if demand is constant between the two. I actually expect this to be "the year of the NB 993" as 964's have had their run as well as the 993TT's.

cobalt

Tough to tell. It is all about numbers made. When you consider the 993TT's were hovering around $100k since forever and now are seeing upwards of $150k average vs the 964 turbo 3.6 which was in the mid $60's while the 993TT's were $100k. now that the 993TT is seeing the $150k average price the 964 turbo 3.6 is seeing $240k average and a high of $300k+.

There are far fewer low mileage clean 964 C2's available I have a funny feeling we will see an evening of the values between the two and <100,000 mile 964's passing the 993 for the first time.

hockenheimr

993 prices for the most part had a huge jump last year. There will always be a few deals, but I think the trend has moved up and that will pull even the less loved cars with it. I think the general public see's the 993 as being the best looking 911 of all time, hells I did for a long time and that was because I had never seen a non-turbo 964 coupe in person before last year. The min I saw one in real life I fell in love and had to have one but there are very few coupes on the streets.

I've been following Porsche 911 prices for a few years now (since I was 12), and there is usually a dip in the winter and then prices normalize in the early spring, which happens to coincide with bonuses. Right now there are very few 964s for sale, I think that will be very positive on prices for next year.

I agree that over the next few years we could see 964 prices move above the 993 trend, maybe we should put some pressure on Magnus!

I think the 991 was Porsche making a line in the sand, saying we are moving forward as a car company and not as a car club. That will be very positive for all older models.

Edit: The 991 has been on the market for 2 or 3 calendar years now, I think it would be interesting to see how many 'famous' people traded in their 997 for one...or even bought one to add to their collections....I think the list would be short.

Edit Edit: Also, the price to buy a new 991 has gone up a lot from other models. Imagine the price to buy a new 964, 993, 996, and 997 was pretty stable over that long period of time. This should be positive for used prices as well.

cobalt

I hope you mean more than a few years (since you were twelve in????)

I agree the 993's have seen an increase they are definitely not going down but compared to all previous air cooled 911's they IMO have seen the least % increase in value was what I was trying to point out.

Great cars still too new and now they seem to be in a category by themselves, not water cooled but not the traditional 911 styling the 964 retained. Aesthetic preference seems to play less of a roll in reasoning to purchase than it did in the past. In the past there was a definite divide between early 964's and later 964's. Threads would be in search of a 91-94 C2 or RSA to any nice 964 will do. The earlier cars were always singled out previously and could be had in the teens now those same cars are seeing double to triple or more their previous sale prices. The 993's never got low enough and always retained value those same cars are seeing a 50% increase instead of the 964's 100-200% increase.

Can someone please explain this fascination with Magnus Walker? I have watched a number of you tube interviews and I don't get it. Everyone seems to believe he is the bible and I find as much wrong as right regarding his comments about some models. Just because of his past doesn't make him a guru about Porsche's. He has style but???

Porsche is no longer the company it was and they will find ways to prosper from the classics. Spares are already increasing exponentially but the new product is so different. I enjoyed my boxster and Cayenne's the new cars are incredibly capable but they engineered out the most import part the interactive experience of these older cars. They slowly started with the 993 and it has been a steady process since.

I am faithful the 964 will be recognized as one of the best instead of the black sheep one day.... maybe not too far off.

TouringTeg

The 964 and 993 are both fantastic cars but I do see the 964 surpassing the 993 in value. The 964 has the classic shape and there are simply less manual coupes on the market.

I really enjoy my 97 C4S but continue to look for a 964 coupe in Canada. Supply is very tight here and the drop in the CDN dollar versus USD is bringing savy US buyers north.

hockenheimr

Cobalt, considering you have 3 964s I think your 'Cruising Your Religion' Lol just a play on one of the Magnus Walker vids.

I think it's his passion, humility and how he romanticizes about Porsche ownership. One of my friends did a video scene in his house a few years ago. He rents it for movies or something, and my friend kept telling me stories of some white guy with dreads and that he had all these Porsches in his house.

cobalt

I got your reference but a lot of what he is saying I and many others have been saying for far longer than anyone knew who he was. I don't hear or see anything that is an original thought he has a good eye but if I had his $$ I have no doubt I would be playing with more toys as he does.

Not trying to put him down, I just don't get the idolization of him.

canuck964

I am of the same impression. There are lots of guys with $$$$ who are quietly collecting away and doing impressive projects.

He knows how to market himself and is very very good at it. Others have no interest in making their hobby public.

hockenheimr

I wish more people would make videos about their cars, I think that is also the attraction. I keep watching the same videos over and over again....my wife thinks I am crazy.

I think a lot of people were upset/let down when Drive TV wanted to charge us to watch Larry's car on the track.....any idea if they have a free version yet?

canuck964

I would suggest that you contact Alex at Eurosport Imports in North Vancouver. I bought my 964 from him and it is a Japanese Import. I believe Japanese imports are hard to get into the US so there may be a bit less competition for them.

I think the downside is that it may be harder to subsequently sell as the market would limited to Canadians or Europeans and not the US. This may also affect resale values.