burgass

Here is how it looked on my C4 Hope the pic will help you

KirkF

Jason,

Thanks to you and everyone else. I think that list pretty much straightens everything out.
(At least until someone else comes back with different numbers!)

Adjustment of the ISV helped, but stalling was not the reason I opened the clutch up. The main reason was I couldnt get the clutch to fully disengage, got worse with heat, etc.

Bleeding, changing the master and slave cylinder and flexible line, did not help.

I was literally trying to push the clutch through the floorboards to get full disengagement.

Since I can't identify the flywheel manufacturer I have no way of guessing whose LWF conversion this was or what is wrong with it. (Although oil contamination was obviously a major factor)

It might have been designed for the 90+ year cars with slightly different bell housings, etc. Clutch disengagement problems may have only been due to wear. I can't find numbers on any of the parts.

So I decided the only way I was going to ensure the clutch worked properly when I put it back together was to return to the stock porsche setup.

I don't know why the P.O went to this setup in the first place. This car never had a DMF, maybe he wanted a stiffer clutch. I know I will be happy to be rid of it. It was very frustrating to drive.

The price of a new flywheel is quite reasonable, so I am not worried about replacing this one even if the new one weighs the same. I will be guaranteed of a proper setup at that point.


Thanx
Kirk

KirkF

Burgass,

That pic is perfect. It shows exactly the clutch that matches the numbers Jason provided.

Thank you also to Indy for tracking those prices down. I will compare them to Sunsets and see where everything is at!

Kirk

JasonAndreas

Burgass,
Was your starter ring gear mounted between the flywheel and the pressure plate or on the outside of the pressure plate?

burgass

I dunno....
I was only taking pictures after they took the engine apart

Indycam

Hiya Marc
I'm sure I have a new one around here somewhere , its just that after the move everythings kinda mixed up and hard to find right away . I've got stuff everywhere , upstairs and downstairs in the garage,
in the green house , in the tool crib , in the darkroom , in the spare bedrooms , in the dining room .
Someday soon I'll have it all sorted out but to move one thing to a new place , I have to make room someplace else for the thing that was moved to make room for the 1st thing .
How bout that survey ?

KirkF

****UPDATE****

Well I just received the parts order from Sunset porsche. (They shipped all parts in good order, and correctly. I would not hesitate to deal with them again.)

The first thing I noticed was the assembled height of the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate was much deeper than the setup I pulled out of my car.

I had to reference this thread to note that Jason Andreas asked Burgass where his starter ring was positioned. The lightened flywheel setup I took out of my car had the starter ring in between the flywheel and pressure plate, the stock 1989 setup puts the starter ring on the transmission side of the pressure plate.

This led me to Geoffs comment about the 1989 starter being different from the 1990- starters. Mine starter is the post 1990 model(long nose), so I will have to buy a new one to fit this stock setup.

89/90 starter is # 911.604.102.01
90- starter is # 964.604.104.00

I guess when the previous owner switched out his stock setup to the lightened flywheel they chaged the starter as well.

Its a good thing I ordered every part for the clutch assembly. The clutch guide tube is a different length to accomodate the deeper clutch setup.

Sadly, I am now right in the middle of my engine rebuild, so I can't just put these parts in and test it out. However I am going to give them a quick dry assembly by putting my crank back in the case temporarily and test fitting all the parts. I will have to order a new starter.

Note: A rough weighing of the flywheel I ordered puts it at 10.5 lbs. This is the stock weight of a 1989 flywheel.

Questions:
1. The starter ring gear has a machined lipped edge and a flat edge, which way does it go on the pressure plate?
2. Any advice on intalling the throwout bearing?
3. Exactly what is supposed to get lubed with the high pressure grease? (was there a tsb on this?)

Thanx
Kirk



1989 Porsche 964 Carerra 4 Parts
PART # DESCRIPTION QUANTITY
999 113 426 41 rear main seal 1
964 102 239 00 mid weight flywheel 1
931 102 111 00 ball bearing 35m 1
930 102 206 00 cheese -hd screw 9
950 116 086 06 clutch release fork 1
950 116 715 01 clutch fork bush 2
950-116-023-03 pressure plate 1
950 116 012 52 clutch disc (rubber centered) 1
950-116-080-08 release bearing 1
950 116 143 01 starter ring 1
900 067 045 02 cheese head screws M8 x 80 9
950 116 813 06 clutch guide tube 1
900 270 055 02 screw M6 x 14 2
950 116 710 04 clutch shaft 1
999 113 418 40 operating shaft gasket 2
999 201 339 00 operating shaft bush 1
999 201 365 00 operating shaft bush 1
950 116 725 00 operating shaft cover 1
000 043 024 00 Olista Longtime 3EP 1
964 207 252 14 oil pipe 1

viperbob

Wow you have quite a collection of stuff there. I'll answer your questions, and then just double check a few of your parts.

First, the machined part of the starter ring goes towards the flywheel. You will see that the pressure plate fits then perfectly in the recess.

Second, get a friend or two to help or use a press. Do you know the proper order for the pieces and the orientation of the spring washer?

Third, grease the fingers of the pressure plate prior to putting on the throw out bearing. Next grease the fork where the fingers contact the throwout bearing. And then put some grease in the recess for the slave cylinder rod in the fork. While you may think it is a good idea to grease the plastic bushings in the fork, don't. Using grease there will attract dirt. That is why they went to the plastic bushings. Use some grease in the tranny holes where the clutch cross shaft will fit after reassembly.

craig001

You guys are great taking all these pictures. I gotta modify a line from Apocolypse Now to "I love the site of new parts in the morning!"

KirkF

Bob,

Thanx for the info.

-I have a small press, so I will use that.

-I have the factory service manuals, and I just managed to find the section where it shows how to put the spring washers/etc together. I am sure it will all make sense once I actually open the bag and look at the individual parts.

I would like to get it all setup on the pressure plate and ready to go. (Since I am now waiting for parts to come in for the engine rebuild)

I am going to do some cleanup in the garage today, and get the parts organized from the engine teardown. Hopefully on sunday I will get the throwout bearing in place.

I havent look yet, but is the pilot bearing in the flywheel just pressed into place?

Kirk

chris walrod

For compressing the t/o bearing spring washer (belleville washer), I use a piece of wood and two c-clamps. Works great and gives you time to get the retaining wire ring seated properly.

Position the wood (2x4, or flat sheet approx. the size of the PP, I actually the top of a round bar stool I have in the garage) under the fingers of the T/O bearing and clamp (lightly) to compress the spring washer just enough to get the wire retainer into place. Works great!

KirkF

***OH SH#T***

I just found a reference in the documentation for my car:

Sept 4/93
Replace 91 Transmission & Flywheel Assembly.

This would explain how another other bill said in '99 that they removed the dual mass flywheel and replaced it with a 12lb after market flywheel setup.
(I previously doubted this statement since it was an 89 and they didnt come with a dual mass flywheel)

This is REALLY bad since I have $2500 worth of clutch parts for an '89 sitting here.

So I am trying to figure out of this means they put a '91 flywheel and clutch assembly in, or whether they put a complete '91 transmission in. (what could have possibly happened to cause a complete tranny replacement when the car was only 4 years old!)

Here are some questions:

1. How do you identify the year of the transmission. I found the following numbers:
Bell housing area: 950.301.101.3R
Middle Transmission: G6400 3L01923
Tail transmission: 964.301.103.5R

2. Is there really any difference between the transmissions in the different years, or do you just have to change out the complete clutch assembly.

I will put this in a new post as well so I can drag as many people as possible into my problem.

Kirk