C4Russ

Dave, have you read the CEL fault from the panel, i.e. counted the lights? Stop whatever you are doing until you have done so.

http://members.rennlist.com/billwagner/CheckEngine.html

This is very simple to do and should be the first thing you do if you get a CEL.

Tell us what you find, perhaps someone here can help once we know what we are really trying to correct.

Russ

dfinnegan

C4Russ,

I did check the CEL about a week ago and reported a 1114 code (permanent CHT sensor failure).

I rechecked tonight and am not certain that I have interpreted the code correctly.

I have no 1000 code indicating the end of the codes. My code simply repeats with or without depressing the pedal for additional codes.

The sequence is six "indicators" long. Two of these indicators are a long pause (light off) and a long one (light on).

The write-up indicates a flash to start the sequence so I interpreted my sequence to be a L114 1P, repeat. That is, 1114 and a flash-pause to restart the sequence.

Tonight, however, I ran the CEL again and am thinking now that the sequence may actually be a 1141 PL. That is a 1141 code followed by a pause followed by a long 1 to restart the sequence.

This latter code is a Faulty Control unit indicator which could be correct due to the fact that my car has had an aftermarket chip put into it. The CEL write-up indicates that the CEL may be disabled if an aftermarket chip is installed.

Do you, or anyone else, know if the seperator between codes is a flash-pause or a pause-long?

Cheers,
Dave

C4Russ

Dave, I've only seen it with one code so I can't offer much here.

Do you have the stock chip to put back in for eval reasons?
Is the chip possibly responsible for the trouble?

dfinnegan

C4Russ,

I don't have the stock chip. I don't believe the chip is causing the problem as I've had the car for almost four months now and have had no problem of this sort before.

Any thoughts on whether I have a 1114 or a 1141 code?

Thanks,
Dave

Red rooster

This sounds like whoever did the chip failed to correct the checksum . This will give a " Control unit fault " but is not a problem , though it should be fixed !

In addition to your other checks I would add the AirFlow Meter.
It sounds like the motor is firing up on cold enrichment but as soon as it goes closed loop ( using the lamda signal ) the fuelling is way to lean.
At 3K rpm an air leak would be massive to give this effect.

As a rough guide the air flow signal is about 0.25 volt , ignition on , going to 1.0 volt at idle.If you rev the motor you should see the volts go up to about 2.5 volts ( all off load ).
If you can borrow a AFM from a working car may be worth a try.

Good luck

Geoff

dfinnegan

Geoff,

Your comments regarding the Air Flow Meter are very interesting.

I cleaned the AFM and ISV when I started having idle problems. After that I had no idle and the power loss problems.

Is this a replaceable part?

Or, do I need to replace the whole AFM housing unit?

Thanks,
Dave

Red rooster

Hi,
This is getting a bit confusing reading two threads and trying to piece the information together !
The AFM is like a volume control on the moveable flap , in fact it has a wiper and tracks just the same. What can happen is that the tracks wear and the signal goes noisy ( crackling radio situation). The ECU goes nuts when the crackle starts ! One test is to put a meter on the signal out pin and very slowly push the flap open . You are looking for a slowly increasing voltage with no steps/dips.

Looking at your symptoms on " DME Test " another thing to look at is the charcoal canister vent valve ( On top of the inlet manifold LH side ). If this isnt working correctly then the gas tank builds a vacuum and you get fuel starvation with similar symptoms to yours ( ask me how I know !! ).To test, try releasing the gas cap after a drive. A big woosh is suspicious !
As Lorenfb said your best plan is to think back to when this started ,what happened just before and check around any work done .
To use the shotgun approach and try every fix that can be suggested will consume a lot of your time and probably get you nowhere !!

Good luck,

Geoff

Heirsh

regarding the CHT connector and such.

Here are a couple pics from my car. This isn't what the rest of you guys have back there?

Heirsh

off subject, but this got me to thinking.

Red:

If this evap system was drawing vacuum in the gas tank, the problem would be worst when I am having my strange intermittent problem. I have severe and total power loss from anything but idle after the car drives the engine (down hill) for a bit of time. There is more vacuum in there at that time. What doesnt add up is that my problem will clear up if you trigger wot and thus use the preset curves rather than ox and such.

any thoughts?

dfinnegan

Heirsh,

That is what I have back there and what Jason has. I believe that connector has just two pins within the housing.

The Shop Manual shows the black connector as the temp sensor and that has three live pins in it. That was what I was looking at. Jason has pointed out that I was looking at the wrong connector.

Cheers,
Dave

Red rooster

Heirsh,
That is a strange one !! All I can think off is to temporarily disconnect the purge valve so you dont get any manifold vacc on the top of the tank. Best to do this with 1/2 tank or less of gas !When the motor is driving the motor you get maximium manifold vacuum, foot hard down takes vacc to zero so maybe fixes the problem ?
I know when I had this ,( the canister breather that goes down into the sill got blocked ) , I had a car that started and drove slow OK for a while. After about 3-4 miles it slowly lost power till it stopped ! Release the gas cap-big woosh , and off I go again. Not easy to find at the time !
See if that makes sense .
All the best
Geoff

Heirsh

My sensor is a 2, but its in a 3 wire connector. Thats what jason's looks like as well (space in the middle b/w his pins).

So just for clarity. The newer, or maybe row cars had a straight 2 pin sensor and connector? i.e. there is only room for 2 pins in there verse ours that you could put a 3'rd?

Red, I'm just trying any possibilities at this time. thanks for the thoughts. it definitely gives me something else to rattle around in my head.

I really feel like the system, for whatever reason, is adapting the mixture over during downhill stretches. If you give a bit of gas it just stumbles and has no power. Its not the fact that I'm getting rid of the vacuum that does it (well not directly anyway, long term yes), b/c i didnt have my wot switch working at one point and I didnt know it cleared up with its trigger until I fixed it. Before i had the wot trigger it would take just as long to correct itself as it does now unless i trigger it.

It just gives me the feeling of its adapting the mixture over using input from something( ox sensor i guess) during this operating condition, then it takes it a bit to get it back to normal. So a vacuum leak under high manifold vacuum or now maybe losing fuel pressure (b/c of vacuum in the tank) leading to bad mixture causing adaptation, I dunno. Its driving me nuts.

Red rooster

Head temp sensor has always been a 3way connector with the outer 2 used.
Keeps the parts/bracket the same ?
Good luck with your problem. If you really have your foot right off the gas then if the rpm is high enough ,the ECU has cut the fuel anyway !O2 has nothing to work with and maybe sulks in the corner ??How about temporarily disabling the idle switch and try the down hill bit ?
Good luck ,
Geoff

Heirsh

yeah worth a shot also.

thx for clearing up the connector questions. sooner or later it has to make sense.

dfinnegan

Geoff,

How do I go about fixing the checksum? Do you know?

Thanks,
Dave