John K

I'm looking at used 964's and have found a few with Tips. This is not my first choice but the prices are attractive. Are there any inherent problems with these transmissions or are they fairly bullet-proof?
I plan on getting a PPI either way but am curious about the reliability, performance, etc. of this tranny.
Thanks

Bill Wagner

I looked at Tips too. Before I became serious about one, I called several local shops to see if they were problematic. The worst anyone would tell me about them is that the maintenance procedures in the owners manuals and maintenance schedules does not make it clear to owners when the transmission fluid needs to be changed. As a result, some people apparently never change the fluid and end up damaging the transmission.

Aside from that, most of those I talked to thought they were pretty good, tough, transmissions.

Hope this helps,

Bill Wagner

Adrian

From the data I have collected the Tips donot seem to give anyone any particular problems. I have the Tip shop manual and I found this to be a very good source of information and did include the maintenance schedule for oil changes and how to do. I actually posted this to this bulletin board sometime ago.
The biggest problem with the Tips is actually finding anyone with experience to fix them if they do fail.
Bullet proof they are. They do affect performance. The Tip is heavier of course but reliability is very high. Touch wood!!,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Randall G.

The tiptronic puts serious hurt on a 964's acceleration. 0-60 mph drops from 5.5s to 6.4s (factory figures). That's nearly a full second !

Bob D.

Bruce Anderson has written twice in the last year (I can dig up the references if anybody is interested) that Porsche has told him that the original Tiptronic (as in the 964) is the most reliable transmission, with fewest reported problems, of any Porsche tranny.

On the acceleration differences, it would be interesting to find out whether the Tip figures reported were achieved while leaving it in "D" mode, or shifting it manually.

In any case, IMHO, in real life street use, especially once you have attained any speed, the acceleration difference is pretty negligible--and the Tip may well have an edge in many situations due to its instant, crisp downshifts.

Drive one a while (not just around the block, and be sure to always give it gas when shifting) and, like me, you may well learn to love it. (Besides, if you get a Tiptronic, you can happily scroll past all those dual-mass flywheel posts!) ;-)

HTH, and good luck.

Bill Wagner

When I test drove the C2 Tip I was looking at, I actually had a stop watch with me so I could measure performance differences in full auto mode vs. manual mode. Although VERY un-scientific, I think I was able to cut the 0-60 times down by almost 1/2 second in manual mode. The Tip (if I recall correctly) likes to default to 2nd gear as a starting gear and then downshift into 1st if the driver subjects the car to hard acceleration (this is done on a lot of contemporary automatics as a fuel efficiency improvement...my 300ZX does the exact same thing). The switch from 2nd to 1st takes time in auto mode. If you force it into 1st gear manually and operate it manually I think you can get better acceleration performance. I don't think a Tip is as fast as a standard 964, but in manual mode I bet it's faster than a 3.2 Carrera!

I liked the Tip. I think as far as ANY cars I've driven with automatics (including new 'Vettes) it was the best automatic out there.

Just my opinions,

Bill Wagner

Randall G.

Well, don't know how the factory obtained their 0-60 figure for the 964 tiptronic.
I do have an old copy of a Car & Driver C2 tip road test that says the following:

"In the second method of selecting gears, you move the lever manually through the '1,' '2,', '3,' and 'D' detents. Oddly enough, this is the only (C & D's italics) method by which you can actually hold each gear as long as you want--assuming you can bear the engine's popping and stuttering as the revs jangle hysterically at the 7000-rpm limiter. We obtained our best 0-60 and quarter mile times shifting manually in this mode. But, it's tricky given the vague detents, which make it all too easy to push your way through two gears at once."

Car & Driver ultimately achieved a 0-60 run of 6.1s for the tiptronic, but keep in mind this is the same magazine that squeezed a 4.8s 0-60 time out of a 964.

I also have an old Motor Trend magazine that lists (in the Road Test Summary) a '90 964 tip. as running 0-60 mph in 6.4s--exactly the same as the factory figure. Since I don't have the actual issue containing the test, don't know what method they used. However, I think it's fairly logical to assume they would publish the time for whatever method is optimum.

John K

Thanks to all who responded. I'm not too concerned about the performance numbers. As long as the tip is not a complete dog I'd like to consider it. The cost difference is roughly $2K less vs. some of the comparable 5 speeds I've seen.
For those with a tip, do you find yourself using the manual mode often, never, etc? Is the car almost as fast in auto?
Does the transmission shift when it's "supposed" to?
Thanks again.

Bob D.

Hmmmm...the Car & Driver method certainly seems odd...keeping the shifter in automatic mode, then manually shifting it up through the gears? Presumably because this will allow you to hit right up on the rev limiter, while when in tip mode the revs will stop just short of this point. If saving a tenth of a second was that important to me, I guess I would just eat a light breakfast that day....;-)

Also good to hear the price data, because it proves that America isn't as homogenized as I thought: IME, in the Midwest, tiptronic cars cost more than a comparable 5 speed. Since my ruined left ankle can not support my own weight, let alone push in a clutch anymore, I am acutely aware of this price difference. I would definitely have appreciated the $$ savings. Should have gone to Orange County, I guess! ;-)

John, the tip shifts great in either mode, but your best bet to learn all the details about this trans is to read the section on it in Bruce Anderson's 911 Performance Handbook. He writes that he really likes the tiptronic, but initially he had "trouble defending it in macho conversations." Funny stuff.

He also gives you tricks on how to get it to downshift two gears at once, select the most aggressive of the 5 program maps, etc. Personally, I use the tip mode about 90% of the time, but the auto mode is damn handy when in heavy traffic or distracted or whatever.

HTH.

Randall G.

Hi John,

You might want to consider buying a copy of the "Porsche 911 Gold Portfolio 1990-1997," available through Tweeks. It's a compilation of various 911 road tests, a fabulous reference--regardless of which 964/993 you own. It includes at least 3 road tests of tiptronic 964s, and the author's impression of the transmission. Cost = $25.95.

Tweeks phone = 888-4Tweeks
www.tweeks.com

Randall G.

Hi Bob,

Car & Driver seems to consistently publish the best acceleration times, as compared to Motor Trend and Road & Track. I think there's little doubt they abuse the cars to get their results.

Interestingly, Car & Driver performed a long-term test of a '95 993. At the end of the test--at 40k miles--the 0-60 mph time was off by 0.3s as compared to new, due to a slipping clutch. Ouch! Going through a clutch in 40k miles is pretty severe duty.

John K

Thanks for the info Randall.
This is exactly what I was looking for.

samk

Dear John K,
I have a 91' Tip Cab and using my G-Tech Pro, I get a 0 - 60 time of 5.6 sec(Average). I have a few mods in my distributer and exhaust system. Used the "D" manuel shift mode. Hope this is of use to you.
Thanks sam