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Aftermarket pedals for heel-toe downshifts

 
Old 07-23-2001, 05:13 PM
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Drew_K
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Post Aftermarket pedals for heel-toe downshifts

Has anyone installed aftermarket pedals on their 964? If so, how do you like them and which ones did you buy?

I'm trying to learn the heel-toe downshift, and I think that aftermarket pedals might help. I've been trying to roll the right side of my foot onto the accelerator, but my foot doesn't seem to be wide enough. I thought that a wider accelerator pedal might help. Thanks for any info.
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Old 07-23-2001, 10:43 PM
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I have a Wings "third foot" on my 911. They advertise in Pano. They're well made, slip onto the accelerator pedal, and tighten up with two adjustments - done! You can tilt it to get the angle you want. They make a standard and extra wide version. I bought the extra wide, as it puts maybe another 3/4" of aluminum on the brake pedal side. They say they fit C2/C4. Even has a US Patent. No affiliation, just satisfied customer. Phone is 203-438-2222. XW costs $105. They're located in Ridgefield, CT. Here's the picture from their ad:

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Old 07-25-2001, 11:51 AM
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Drew,
Heal & toe should not be particularly hard in a 964, remember it's HEAL & TOE, on most porsche pedal arrangements you need to use the ball of your foot on the brake, and your heal on the accelerator, your foot will be at a 45 deg angle. You really cant use the side of your foot to do the work. It feels really strange at first but once you get it down it will be second nature. What makes it awkward in the porsche setup is the plane of the pedals which causes you to lift your toe towards you as you move your heal to blip the throttle. I have had two cars modified by moving the brake to the right, there used to be a kit for this, complete with an adjustable link to move the brake pedal more in plane with the accelerator. I have driven a car with the widened pedal, it does make it easier but I never felt it was required, and I was nervous about the possibility that in a emergency you could punch the brake and throttle at the same time with the overlaping pedals but I guess you would get used to it.

Congrats on learning the technique, you'll be amazed at how much more fun a porsche is when you "stir the box" on every drive, plus how much more control you have over the car on the track.
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Old 07-25-2001, 12:24 PM
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I also have the Wings pedal on my 1991 C4. It's so good that you wonder why manufacturers don't make this a standard design. Due to the brake height/accelerator height difference, I couldn't modulate the throttle with my foot on the brake, even for an uphill start. Now,modulating the throttle in all conditions is amazingly easy. I have no interest in this company, I just think it offers the best $100 driving aid that money can buy.
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Old 07-25-2001, 12:32 PM
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GeoC2cab
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high,if your gonna use a set up like this one, make sure this pedal is easy to remove and replace i.e.(when tracking and streeting),it looks like a preety dangerous set up for the street and I woulld bet my bottom dollar it wouldn't pass DMV inspection in these parts(or any in the U.S.)
personally I would rather learn to heal and toe w/ the factory set up, not as easy, but it can be done...
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Old 07-25-2001, 12:53 PM
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Thanks for the input. I've been trying to use the right side of my foot to reach the accelerator because it *seems* like that would be easier. Only problem has been that the accelerator is too far to the right, so the Wings pedal looks very promising.

What technique do you use for the accelerator- your heel or right side of your foot? If you use your heel, how high on the gas pedal does your heel push?

I've tried using my heel but it's really hard to push the gas pedal at the bottom since that's where it's hinged from. Pushing the gas pedal at the top requires less effort and is easier to modulate, which is why I've been trying to use the right side of my foot.

Can anyone explain to me in detail how they heel toe? I REALLY want to learn this. Thanks again.
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Old 07-25-2001, 01:18 PM
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Drew,

Follow the link below, you will see a quick video from the official Porsche site showing this technique being practised on a 911. It seem quite simple, but I am sure it is not!

The only thing is that I think the car in question is a 996.

Heel & Toe technique
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Old 07-25-2001, 03:45 PM
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With the third foot installed, I find it easiest to brake and roll my foot to the right to blip the accelerator. I have the height set so it's a very easy motion. With the 911 accelerator hinged on the floor, it's tough to push with your heel. The third foot does have the extension under the brake pedal, but rolling to the right seemed easier than retraining my foot to use the heel on the extension. However, that's another option with the third foot.

As an aside, someone expressed concern about having an alternate pedal on. It takes, literally, about 10 seconds to take the third foot off, if you need/want to.
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Old 07-25-2001, 08:25 PM
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Check out a great explanation of how to heel-toe on the Tracqest/Rennlist DE board.Tracquest DE board
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Old 07-25-2001, 11:20 PM
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I really think the actual procedure is very much a personal preference - there is no exact right way to do - the important thing is to bring the engine revs up just before re-engaging the clutch.

I have long legs and there is no way I can H&T the conventional way. My legs just won't work around the steering wheel. My feet are wide enough that I am accomplished at using the left side of my right foot to break and the right side to blip the throttle.

I like the wings pedal, although I agree with an earlier post - it brings the throttle precariously close to the brake pedal increasing the possibility of hitting the wrong pedal at the wrong moment.
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Old 07-27-2001, 12:22 PM
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Oh, I forgot to mention, shoes. For porsches it is easier if you get a driving shoe with a wider thicker heal, for street driving running shoes work great. I have a pair of sparcos for the track, others I have had have a very narrow heal that makes it harder, you have to slide your foot halfway up the accelerator to get a good position.

You may want to check out a few high performance driving books, I learned this from bob bondurants course years ago and I think he still covers it in detail in his book.
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Old 08-01-2001, 02:33 AM
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Well I've been practicing heel-toe since I first posted my message, and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I couldn't use it during an autocross yet, but it's definitely getting easier. I've had a few perfectly matched downshifts, and it's such a blast to be able to immediately get on the gas. I definitely want to get proficient at this.

I've been using my heel (rather than the side of my foot) to control the accelerator. I'm not sure I like this technique though because it requires that I place the middle of my foot on the top right edge of the brake pedal. At this position, I can rotate my heel 45 degrees to the side and hit the lower middle of the gas pedal. This works okay for me, but I think that I will have an easier time with an aftermarket pedal that has an extension, such as the Wings pedal. This way I can use the right side of my foot.

I'm going to stop by a local performance car shop and check out their pedals. If they don't have anything suitable, I'm going to buy the XW Wings pedal.
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