Bruce A. = 964/993 Maintenance Costs
07-25-2001, 03:36 AM
#16
Adrian:
For the most part, I couldn't agree with you more. My statement regarding '89s was not to imply it was an '89 problem only....there are only two people I know of who have had this problem, and both of them were on '89s (You're one of them, by the way!). If by any chance I've misread a post of yours where you said you had the repair done, then it would mean I only know of one person who has had this problem.
As far as the US dealers fixing or not fixing them goes, I can only tell you my own experiences in looking at cars I was considering purchasing. Most of these fell into the 50K-100K mile range, with an average of about 60K if I had to guess. I NEVER, NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME saw the dreaded cylinder leak. ALL of these cars were 89-91 models. As I've stated before in other posts (on other web sites as well), either Porsche did the most covert and subversive job of fixing every single one of these cars while managing to hide every trace of upgrades and workmanship from potential used car buyers, or the problem is GROSSLY overblown. Have I seen oil leaking from them....you betcha!...but NOT from the cylinders...usually the "normal" suspects...like camshaft gaskets, hoses, etc. etc. In other words, the things that leak on any other car on the face of the Earth that's exposed to age and use.
For what it's worth, I own a '96 Nissan 300ZX that I use as a commuter car. When the car first went into production, apparently there was some problem with a component in the valves (I don't remember it's been so long...it was the seals, seats, something). In any case, this problem was limited to a few hundred cars out of a production run of tens of thousands for that first production run. Never the less, this problem is now on a "hit list" of things to look out for on 300ZXs....which had production levels on the order of hundreds of thousands if I'm not mistaken before their worldwide production ceased.
I'm starting to get to the point where I'm getting beligerant on this issue...and my inclination to someone who says they have this problem is that they need to prove it!
Does it happen? Sure, but not very often from what I've seen.
Cheers,
Bill Wagner
For the most part, I couldn't agree with you more. My statement regarding '89s was not to imply it was an '89 problem only....there are only two people I know of who have had this problem, and both of them were on '89s (You're one of them, by the way!). If by any chance I've misread a post of yours where you said you had the repair done, then it would mean I only know of one person who has had this problem.
As far as the US dealers fixing or not fixing them goes, I can only tell you my own experiences in looking at cars I was considering purchasing. Most of these fell into the 50K-100K mile range, with an average of about 60K if I had to guess. I NEVER, NOT ONCE, NOT ONE SINGLE TIME saw the dreaded cylinder leak. ALL of these cars were 89-91 models. As I've stated before in other posts (on other web sites as well), either Porsche did the most covert and subversive job of fixing every single one of these cars while managing to hide every trace of upgrades and workmanship from potential used car buyers, or the problem is GROSSLY overblown. Have I seen oil leaking from them....you betcha!...but NOT from the cylinders...usually the "normal" suspects...like camshaft gaskets, hoses, etc. etc. In other words, the things that leak on any other car on the face of the Earth that's exposed to age and use.
For what it's worth, I own a '96 Nissan 300ZX that I use as a commuter car. When the car first went into production, apparently there was some problem with a component in the valves (I don't remember it's been so long...it was the seals, seats, something). In any case, this problem was limited to a few hundred cars out of a production run of tens of thousands for that first production run. Never the less, this problem is now on a "hit list" of things to look out for on 300ZXs....which had production levels on the order of hundreds of thousands if I'm not mistaken before their worldwide production ceased.
I'm starting to get to the point where I'm getting beligerant on this issue...and my inclination to someone who says they have this problem is that they need to prove it!
Does it happen? Sure, but not very often from what I've seen.
Cheers,
Bill Wagner
07-25-2001, 01:38 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Tire wear depends on tire type and use pattern. The rear tires of my 1990 C2 cab wore out at 8000 miles, but this included 2 track days and one autocross. Based on what IT drivers tell me about their enduros, 250-300 race miles are all that they get out of high performance streetable rubber. This means that every 2 mile lap equals 200 miles of street driving on a harder tire.
I switched to Goodyear GSC's which have a much higher wear index and had no further problems with tire wear. But, my mental fudge factor is that one track day will subtract at least 2000 miles from the life of the tires.
Dealer service has been expensive but good, but I too don't know what a $800 "minor service" is. The major service interval appears to be easily stretched to 20,000 miles. While the dollars are high on the service end, they seem to be more than offset by low depreciation on the sale end. My last Corvette cost next to nothing to service, but cost a fortune when I sold it.
I switched to Goodyear GSC's which have a much higher wear index and had no further problems with tire wear. But, my mental fudge factor is that one track day will subtract at least 2000 miles from the life of the tires.
Dealer service has been expensive but good, but I too don't know what a $800 "minor service" is. The major service interval appears to be easily stretched to 20,000 miles. While the dollars are high on the service end, they seem to be more than offset by low depreciation on the sale end. My last Corvette cost next to nothing to service, but cost a fortune when I sold it.
07-26-2001, 05:20 PM
#18
1st Gear
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Hi ya guys all from Italy, I'm new here, been lurking for a while.... 
thanks for your experienced input, that is helping me a lot to shed some doubts about my orientation on what to buy.....I'm debating between a lotus elise/opel speedster (new) or a 1992/3 964 targa (I love targas, the best of the 2 worlds...)....sure, the cost of ownership for a porsche is scary, compared to the relative cheapness and simplicity of the other 2, they are so light and void of gear that really there's not much to tender after! bare aluminum all around ya!
the new opel speedster is sweet, oil change only until 100K km's first major service!!
BUT... I still loove the looks of a C4 targa, so I may go for one for a couple of years, than switch to a elise/speedster...
I spotted an amethist(?) 1992 targa, cup rims, (where 'em stock in 1992?!) 32K kilometers, 1 owner, immaculate, asking 26000 bucks...about 4000 above the books....
now I have 3 questions for you guys:
do you think the low (he says certified kms are worth the dough?
at 32K is there any major service coming up?
having wider tires on the cup rims I guess 225+255 is a real improvement handling-wise on a '92 C4?
Is it true that 964's targa tops squeaks and rattle like crazy?!
thanks for any input you may want to share!
Riccardo
thanks for your experienced input, that is helping me a lot to shed some doubts about my orientation on what to buy.....I'm debating between a lotus elise/opel speedster (new) or a 1992/3 964 targa (I love targas, the best of the 2 worlds...)....sure, the cost of ownership for a porsche is scary, compared to the relative cheapness and simplicity of the other 2, they are so light and void of gear that really there's not much to tender after! bare aluminum all around ya!
the new opel speedster is sweet, oil change only until 100K km's first major service!!
BUT... I still loove the looks of a C4 targa, so I may go for one for a couple of years, than switch to a elise/speedster...
I spotted an amethist(?) 1992 targa, cup rims, (where 'em stock in 1992?!) 32K kilometers, 1 owner, immaculate, asking 26000 bucks...about 4000 above the books....
now I have 3 questions for you guys:
do you think the low (he says certified kms are worth the dough?
at 32K is there any major service coming up?
having wider tires on the cup rims I guess 225+255 is a real improvement handling-wise on a '92 C4?
Is it true that 964's targa tops squeaks and rattle like crazy?!
thanks for any input you may want to share!
Riccardo
07-27-2001, 02:41 AM
#19
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Hi Riccardo,
I believe conventional wisdom says that Targas will rattle and squeak a bit--short of a Targa fresh off the dealer's lot (don't have those anymore
) While it certainly helps to keep surfaces lubricated, it's kinda' a nature of the beast sort of thing.
For that matter, leaks, rattles and squeaks are something you have to live with for any topless car, not just Targas. Unless you're willing to trade your car in for a new one every two years, or spend all your waking hours chasing squeaks and rattles. I still remember when I bought my Targa back in '92. It was sooo quiet!
My wife drives a '96 Miata, so I have opportunity to compare them on a routine basis. Wind/water intrusion is comparable. As for cost, she just had to replace her (fogged) plastic rear window, for $250. The guy at the shop told her to anticipate replacing the entire top in about three years, at a cost of $800. More than the cost of refurbishing a Targa top.
I've owned my Targa since 1992, and just love it.
Hope this helps.
I believe conventional wisdom says that Targas will rattle and squeak a bit--short of a Targa fresh off the dealer's lot (don't have those anymore
) While it certainly helps to keep surfaces lubricated, it's kinda' a nature of the beast sort of thing.For that matter, leaks, rattles and squeaks are something you have to live with for any topless car, not just Targas. Unless you're willing to trade your car in for a new one every two years, or spend all your waking hours chasing squeaks and rattles. I still remember when I bought my Targa back in '92. It was sooo quiet!
My wife drives a '96 Miata, so I have opportunity to compare them on a routine basis. Wind/water intrusion is comparable. As for cost, she just had to replace her (fogged) plastic rear window, for $250. The guy at the shop told her to anticipate replacing the entire top in about three years, at a cost of $800. More than the cost of refurbishing a Targa top.
I've owned my Targa since 1992, and just love it.
Hope this helps.
07-27-2001, 02:47 PM
#20
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Add me to your list of leakers Bill - my engine was pouring from everywhere, including the heads. HOWEVER, in line with everything that you and Adrian have said on this point, I have not actually met anyone else that had the same problem +++ my car had done over 129K miles, clearly in the hands of some serious idiots (the only thing NOT bent/broken/crap was the body so no crashes as such) ++++ and was in need of a serious overhall top to toe in any case.
I bought it knowing full well that the car was poor, but it is basically extremely sound and I know that I can turn it into a really good, fast and enjoyable (stealth) car for less spent annually on modifications and maintenance than I would otherwise simply lose on depreciation on a newer car. I am running at about 12K miles per annum at present, in this car alone (I have others).
Keep defending to the death ....
I bought it knowing full well that the car was poor, but it is basically extremely sound and I know that I can turn it into a really good, fast and enjoyable (stealth) car for less spent annually on modifications and maintenance than I would otherwise simply lose on depreciation on a newer car. I am running at about 12K miles per annum at present, in this car alone (I have others).
Keep defending to the death ....
